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Old 03-25-2013, 12:17 AM   #16
mojoey
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Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 Ok, so we'll be using Docks 2 and 3 on the exterior. I'll get cracking on my docking practice next week.
Quick thought: can Dragon be refuelled through the docking mechanism? If not right now, is it a consideration?
That's why I wanted to use the FH as an LV. So we could use the second stage all the way up to docking. Then jettison the second stage.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:19 AM   #17
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OK, cool. otherwise, we'd have to cross-deck fuel from the Arrow to perform the propulsuive EDL we'll likely have to use...
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:19 AM   #18
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(at first, I thought the Dragon's fuel was sufficient to rendezvous with the Arrow in LEO, but then I realized that fuel was needed for landing on Mars)
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:21 AM   #19
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Hrm. How long do you think the FH upper stage could be stored on orbit? If we used the upper stage to perform the early part of the deorbit and descent, and REALLY shed some velocity with that... We might stand a chance. It all depends on the parachutes... If they don't open, we're sunk.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:24 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by dgatsoulis View Post
 IIRC, there is a handy EVME free return comming up next October. It might be useful for the manned Dragon to have an abort → back to Earth option.

If you want, I can create a preliminary TransX plan and check the reentry velocity to see if the capsule can handle it.
If you want, can you test the Dragon's EDL capabilities from a 200km orbit.

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 Hrm. How long do you think the FH upper stage could be stored on orbit? If we used the upper stage to perform the early part of the deorbit and descent, and REALLY shed some velocity with that... We might stand a chance. It all depends on the parachutes... If they don't open, we're sunk.
I think the upper stage was meant for more than one ignition but I could be wrong.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:26 AM   #21
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Around Earth, or Mars? We may need to do an "unnofficial" flight to test the Dragon's response on Mars...

---------- Post added at 17:26 ---------- Previous post was at 17:24 ----------

I'm concerned about propellants, not restart. I.e. How will the RP-1 react to 6 months on freefall on the way to Mars? How much LOX will we lose?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:27 AM   #22
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Maybe I can fly either the first or the second mission.

(as long as it doesn't involve turning on all the pertubations, or having advanced rendezvous procedures)
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:30 AM   #23
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Oooh, forgot about that... I'm terrible at making rendevous manuevers. Once I'm within, oh, 5 km, I'm set. But anything more that, and I'm stuck.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:33 AM   #24
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When you get into an 30 deg orbit using the Falcon 9 + Dragon, the upper stage has about 800 m/s of delta-V, according to the Burn Time Calculator.

I think that's sufficient for going to the Arrow.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:44 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mojoey View Post
 If you want, can you test the Dragon's EDL capabilities from a 200km orbit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 Around Earth, or Mars? We may need to do an "unnofficial" flight to test the Dragon's response on Mars...[
Sure, I can setup one scenario and try out both the manned and the cargo Dragons.
But how are they supposed to get back to Martian orbit and rendezvous with the Arrow?
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:45 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgatsoulis View Post
 Sure, I can setup one scenario and try out both the manned and the cargo Dragons.
But how are they supposed to get back to Martian orbit and rendezvous with the Arrow?
Around Mars.

(Read the asterisk)
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:52 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by mojoey View Post
 *return to Earth not guaranteed. You have been warned.
Hope you bring beer!


---------- Post added at 17:52 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------

Hmmm... Do you think we'll have space for a greenhouse? If we're setting up a base whether we like it or not, that would be a huge benefit.
We need to allocate some space for an inflatable hab as well.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:54 AM   #28
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I don't undestand. You want to me to test if the Dragons (just the capsules, manned/unmanned) can perform an (E)ntry (D)escent and (L)anding from a 200x200 km parking orbit around Mars, correct?

What I am asking is how the crew is supposed to get back to the Arrow. The asterisk says "return to Earth not guaranteed. You have been warned".

With no launch vehicle, it should probably say: "Death of the crew on Martian surface guaranteed. You have been warned".
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:57 AM   #29
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If my interpretation is correct, this is going to be the first step of building a base. It's not part of the mission, but this is how you would do it. Read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars to get a feel for what we're in for.
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Old 03-25-2013, 12:59 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaverickSawyer View Post
 If my interpretation is correct, this is going to be the first step of building a base. It's not part of the mission, but this is how you would do it. Read Kim Stanley Robinson's Red Mars to get a feel for what we're in for.
Thanks for the clarification.
Ok, will perform the EDL tests and get back to you in a while.
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