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Old 01-27-2016, 06:11 PM   #1
JMW
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Default Working with Matlab and tileedit

Have installed Matlab runtimes as per readme for tileedit (in Program files by default).
Tileedit runs, but what do I do now?
I want to use the "rudimentary editing capability for elevation data" Martins mentioned to level out runways etc.
I've tried loading a "surface" tile but nothing shows, only some data in the "Lat"/"Lng" range fields and loads of error messages in the command window.
Guess I need to load the "elevation" data somehow but don't have a clue....
Have I set up things right?
Any help appreciated....
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:21 PM   #2
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Sorry, there isn't much documentation (yet).

Essentially, select 'Open' from the file menu, then pick the directory root of the texture tree you want to inspect (e.g. Textures\Earth).

This should then load the lowest resolution Earth tile (global coverage, 128x128 pixels for the surface texture). In addition, other layers of the same tile can be displayed beside it (elevation, water mask, night lights, if applicable).

Make sure that "Pan and zoom" is selected for mouse action. Move the mouse into one of the tile displays. The tile should then be surrounded by a red square. Click on it, and this should load the child of the root tile (level 2, still global coverage, 256x256).

Keep clicking, and at some point you'll see that the rectangle only covers half of the map (western or eastern hemisphere). This is the start of the quadtree. At the deeper levels, each tile will have 4 children. You can descend into the tree by moving the mouse into one of the quadrants (will be indicated by a red square) and click.

You can move up to the parent level by moving the mouse to the centre of the image until a red X appears, and click.

You can shift the view to a neighbour tile by moving the mouse towards the centre of one of the edges, until an arrow appears, and click.

You can visit any part of the quadtree even if no texture or elevation file exists for that tile. tileedit then interpolates from a subrange of an ancestor tile, just like Orbiter.

You can see the 'logical' designation of the tile in the info block at the top left. The 'physical' address of a tile is shown below the tile display. When these differ, you know that you see an interpolated, synthesized tile.

By picking a different mouse action, you can edit elevation data (no other layers currently allow editing). If you edit an elevation tile, the modifications will not be written to the original elevation tile, but to a new file under 'Elev_mod' in the directory tree. The mod tiles will contain the differences to the original tile. By deleting a mod tile, you undo all modifications to that tile.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Most should be fairly self-explanatory. Let me know if anything doesn't make sense.

Note that currently there is no support for creating a new elevation tile that isn't yet present in the tree. I have a matlab script that generates a new tile by interpolating the parent, but that hasn't been incorporated into tileedit yet. You could always just copy an arbitrary tile file, and then use the mod function to completely replace it.

Edit: I should also mention that the elevation mod tiles only get written to disk when you navigate away from the edited tile.

Also, tileedit automatically propagates the edits to all the ancestor tiles (and the neighbour siblings for edits in the overlap areas), but not to the children. You should always make the edits on the tiles in the leaf nodes of the quadtree.
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Old 09-17-2016, 10:44 AM   #3
mxk
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Hello, I try to work with tileedit but without success because when I try to load the contents from Textures\Earth folder I getting the error messages in the command window.
Any idea from where the problem could be coming?


Last edited by mxk; 09-17-2016 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 10-08-2016, 10:40 PM   #4
wehaveaproblem
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Thanks for the instructions martins, but I'm getting the exact same errors as mxk

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxk View Post
 Hello, I try to work with tileedit but without success because when I try to load the contents from Textures\Earth folder I getting the error messages in the command window.
Any idea from where the problem could be coming?

{image}
any ideas?
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:14 AM   #5
martins
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tileedit doesn't currently work with compressed (.tree) texture archives. You have to unpack the archive with texpack -e (or Face's treeman utilities) before running tileedit.
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Old 10-09-2016, 11:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martins View Post
 tileedit doesn't currently work with compressed (.tree) texture archives. You have to unpack the archive with texpack -e (or Face's treeman utilities) before running tileedit.
Yes...

but the better way is to load the Complete high-resolution pack (6 files.7z )at this adress :
http://mirror.orbiter-radio.co.uk/or...ets/earth.html

Then unzip ("un7zip"...) the 6 archives (in a separate folder is better) and verify you have the good architecture (path) :
Textures\earth\surf\01 etc (and 01\mask etc...)

then select with Tileedit the root folder (named "earth") and... that's it.

You MUST have all the tiles from folder (resolution) from 01 to 19.

Try this and tell me...
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Old 10-09-2016, 11:18 AM   #7
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How do those hi res textures relate to the 'official' 2016 hi res ones from the main orbiter download page?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquesmomo View Post
 Yes...

but the better way is to load the Complete high-resolution pack (6 files.7z )at this adress :
http://mirror.orbiter-radio.co.uk/or...ets/earth.html

Then unzip ("un7zip"...) the 6 archives (in a separate folder is better) and verify you have the good architecture (path) :
Textures\earth\surf\01 etc (and 01\mask etc...)

then select with Tileedit the root folder (named "earth") and... that's it.

You MUST have all the tiles from folder (resolution) from 01 to 19.

Try this and tell me...
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehaveaproblem View Post
 How do those hi res textures relate to the 'official' 2016 hi res ones from the main orbiter download page?
they are the same, but uncompressed (not *.tree compressed files)

I'm doing implémentation of new tiles for Kourou... preview :


Last edited by jacquesmomo; 10-09-2016 at 04:14 PM.
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:14 PM   #9
martins
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They are probably not quite the same. In particular some of the high-res elevation data around KSC will be missing in the older beta textures. Also the release textures contain some areas with SRTM-30 elevation data (mostly North America) which are not present in the beta textures.

These are relatively minor differences, but it is still not a good idea to mix the release and beta textures. And if you have already downloaded the release textures, it seems silly to download them again just to get them in a different format. Note that unpacking the beta textures from the .7z archives will probably take a similar time to unpacking the release textures from the .tree archives.
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Old 10-09-2016, 09:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martins View Post
 These are relatively minor differences, but it is still not a good idea to mix the release and beta textures.
It's true. That's why I was saying : " in a separate folder is better".

It is just for model to make others tiles with these as Template.


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Old 10-09-2016, 10:50 PM   #11
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Must admit I'm struggling with the new "surface tile" system. I'd like to get into it, and modify some old bases I made, but completely stumped by the new system.

Any chance some one will do an idiots guide to it?

N.
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Old 10-10-2016, 09:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notebook View Post
 Must admit I'm struggling with the new "surface tile" system. I'd like to get into it, and modify some old bases I made, but completely stumped by the new system.

Any chance some one will do an idiots guide to it?
I would like to see that, too. While I understand it pretty well, I find it hard to explain it to others. I can express it technically, sure, but then some Italian folks already think I'm talking my own language, so that obviously doesn't help much .

---------- Post added at 11:33 ---------- Previous post was at 06:37 ----------

Perhaps it is best to start with the reasons why it is so hard to understand. From my point of view, base developers previously had the following situation:
  • There is some base you want to create, layout and deploy.
  • You know the coordinates, so you can convert it to Orbiter coordinates.
  • You know where what buildings should be, so you can place them there with the configuration file syntax.
  • The terrain was flat, so height data for buildings was optional.
  • Better textures for surroundings were done by placing one or more DDS tiles into Textures folders, named by a well-known coordinate-to-name scheme.
  • Gather meshes, textures and config files of the addon in question, ZIP it up, deploy it, done.
Now there is the following situation:
  • There is some base you want to create, layout and deploy.
  • You know the coordinates, so you can convert it to Orbiter coordinates. Question 1: what about that texture tree resolution and coordinate system? How and when do I need it?
  • You know where what buildings should be, so you can place them there with the configuration file syntax.
  • Yikes, there is terrain now! Question 2: how do I know where my buildings come out in terms of height?
  • Old texture placing doesn't work anymore! Question 3: how should I place my tiles now? Can I even use them again?
  • Gathering meshes, textures and config files of the addon did not change much, but what about those texture tree things? Question 4: how should I deploy my texture and/or terrain work?
I could give answers to this, but it would be a developer's answer, and not a tutor's one. No matter how hard I try, it seems.


It would be helpful if those struggling with the situation explain exactly what they do not understand, or at least formulate some questions.
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Old 10-10-2016, 10:01 AM   #13
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Thanks for all that Face.
Good points and questions, I for one will have a think and try and formulate some sensible
questions.

N,
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:19 PM   #14
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So I spent a few hours yesterday playing around with the tileedit util, base config and had a gander at all the surface dds files...

Tileedit is pretty crude workflow wise, but fairly easy to actual edit the heightmaps with, at least to just flatten areas anyway. Although I did find there were a few quirks to the way the landscaped terraformed. Anyway I muddled through thoroughly ruining Ascension's natural beauty.

But I think the surface tiles themselves are the hardest to understand so far. If I hadn't had marco's 2016 Ascension tiles to look at I would have been lost. Now I understand the principles of tree structures and subdividing squares and whathaveyou, and tileedit is a nice way to actually visualise how it works, but I have no idea how to actually create tiles from scratch. The different level files seemed to be a mix of 2048, 1024 and 512 resolution. I couldn't really make sense of why tiles were the size they were. In addition I don't know which ones I need to create, or at what resolutions, or what utils, if any, will do the calculation work for me from n number of original images. Also, why, when I edit the elevation files, does it only change the level 13 files for example. I feel poorly educated.

I have to use d3d9 client with 2016 and that has a few transparency issues with base meshes that have undershadows. That and the not truly flat flat terrain (unlike 2006/10) means using meshes as the floor is perhaps less preferable than editing the surface tiles themslelves now. So if I'm going to start altering surface tiles I'd like to know which ones and how to do this for the highest quality finish.

tl;dr I need a step-by-step idiot's guide for creating/editing surface tiles please

Last edited by wehaveaproblem; 10-10-2016 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 10-10-2016, 07:57 PM   #15
Face
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehaveaproblem View Post
 Anyway I muddled through thoroughly ruining Ascension's natural beauty.
Regarding base conversion, this is what you can already do with OT3 in about 5 minutes (no tileedit, just OT3 plus mspaint):


However, it will not help you understand the underlying system and how you can leverage the new features.
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