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Old 09-30-2016, 10:49 PM   #211
martins
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Originally Posted by GLS View Post
 >> only shows up in internal view
So does this look like conventional z-tearing between cloud and surface layer? And if so, is this likely to be related to the recent change of reducing the near plane distance to 1 m in internal view?
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Old 09-30-2016, 11:56 PM   #212
GLS
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Originally Posted by martins View Post
 So does this look like conventional z-tearing between cloud and surface layer? And if so, is this likely to be related to the recent change of reducing the near plane distance to 1 m in internal view?
My limited graphics knowledge says it could be possible... but if it is z-trouble, shouldn't it affect more of the planet, instead of just some zones (that are not always the same) at a time?

BTW: I was in the "normal" (non-2D, non-3D) cockpit when I took the screen I posted.... not sure if it matters. And playing with the MFDs and HUD changed nothing.
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Old 10-01-2016, 01:47 AM   #213
Tycho
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Longtime Orbinaut, since the 2006 days. Checking in to say how beautiful Orbiter 2016 is. I'd never used the beta, so I'm blown away by the updates. The terrain is incredible. Loads of fun with this are in my future. Thanks, Martin!
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Old 10-01-2016, 06:07 PM   #214
jarmonik
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 So does this look like conventional z-tearing between cloud and surface layer? And if so, is this likely to be related to the recent change of reducing the near plane distance to 1 m in internal view?
I made 20min test run from a several different altitudes and couldn't reproduce it with Orbiter's inline engine. "Try stencil buffer" had no effect.
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Old 10-01-2016, 11:08 PM   #215
Michkov
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I think I'm having the same issues. Took a test flight over the Alps today and got black sections flickering at the far horizon. Turned off all Planetary effects and it seems like Horizon haze causes it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 11:01 AM   #216
gattispilot
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So Maybe there is a something I am missing in the code part. I loaded Attachment Manager into Orbiter2016 and I get the red X in its window.

Also Is there a way to reduce the screen. I have noticed if I have debug info. It shows up below the screen where I can't read it.
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Old 10-03-2016, 08:27 PM   #217
jedidia
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EDIT: Ignore most of this post, I screwed up badly! See below.

So, after having had a pretty stable setup with dynamic touchdown points on the release version of 2016, I've updated to the last svn and...

yeah, there's some serious issues that crept in here. Vessels tend to be skiddish and shifting around (especially well observable in landed docked stacks), and once they do that, they become inherently unstable. As in, if I hold a window clicked, thereby temporarily freezing the simulation, and then release it again after a second or so, they get thrown about. The worst I've seen was a stack being flung into NaN-space when moving the orbiter window.
And they do in fact have a tendency to flip over that was not there in the release version. And when they flip over, they don't even flip onto their touchdownpoints on the back... they just flip and seem to lie on their first 3 touchdown points face down, i.e. the back of the vessel is sinking into the ground.

Docking and undocking on the ground was pretty hit-and-miss in the release version already, with the tendency of flinging vessels of the ground on docking (and I'm talking slow, controlled docking here, not remote docking from kilometers away with scenario editor - undocking always went fine, though), but now it can easily happen that they get thrown below the ground on undocking.
Docked stacks also seem to have a strange tendency to not stand straight, which they didn't exhibit before. I'm attaching a screenshot to illustrate the point.

Now I'll grant you, some of the things I do are a bit experimental, but what I'm testing right now worked mostly flawlessly on the release version. Now that I upgraded to the latest SVN, I begin to understand the problems GattisPilot is having. It seems that touchdown points are in fact pretty broken in the current commit.

(note concerning the screenshot: No, this positioning is not due to touchdown points being in the wrong places. Both vessels lie perfectly flat on their own, and they lay flat as a stack in the release version)
Attached Thumbnails
WeirdStack.JPG  

Last edited by jedidia; 10-05-2016 at 08:42 PM.
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Old 10-03-2016, 09:46 PM   #218
turtle91
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Quote:
essels tend to be skiddish and shifting around (especially well observable in landed docked stacks), and once they do that, they become inherently unstable. As in, if I hold a window clicked, thereby temporarily freezing the simulation, and then release it again after a second or so, they get thrown about.
Ok, I am still on official Orbiter2016 release, but in your screenshot...it looks a bit like Brighton Beach.
At least in the official release, there are still problmes with pads below sea-level-altitude.
Just an example:

XR2 at pad1 Brigton Beach...or Olympus..same story:
-release a LOX tank=
first it looks good, the tank apears close to the vessel
but when the sim-engine tries to switch to IDLE/LANDED...the LOX tank pushes into space.
As far as I can see, the XR2's default payload-"vessels" have valid touchdown-point-definitions within their CFGs.

If I do the same again at KSC(release LOX tank), all is fine.
The "vessel" appears near the XR2 and settled-down after about 5 seconds (to LANDED/IDLE), and keeps there.

Maybe this is related, that some vessel-variables are still using mean-rad instead of altmode_ground. ( i.e. http://www.orbiter-forum.com/project.php?issueid=1281)
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Old 10-04-2016, 12:41 PM   #219
hypersonic
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HUGE Congratulations Martin!! - Perhaps another Meet-up Beer is in order!!? - Only been 10 years since the last one ;-)
Al
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Old 10-05-2016, 08:41 PM   #220
jedidia
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My sincerest appologies! I hereby gladly report that I made a mistake and was posting my above report on touchdown points based on false data.

When I took my code over to the SVN (I had a regular orbiter 2016 install and checked out the development version in a seperate install), the local repository in which I store my config files ended up one commit behind the remote. I'm not sure why, usually I don't have to do a fetch right after a clone, but in the future I think I will just to be on the save side.

As a result, most touchdown points were never actually created, because the hull shapes were not defined yet in some of the config files in that commit. Even worse, the positions of some of the touchdown points were undefined. I noticed my mistake today when I ran the same tests with 2 Delta Gliders and couldn't make out anything particularly unstable about the arrangement. Once I got my config files up to where they were supposed to be, Behavior was consistent again with the release version. Sorry for the panic!

The one thing I did still notice however is the problem posted in the above screenshot. Even when docking 2 DGs together, it can be observed that they are not standing straight (albeit not as pronounced as in the screenshot). It almost appears as if some force is puishing down on the rear of one of the vessels, lifting its nose up.

Oh, and there's the issue with the scenario editor putting vessels on the pad in a manner that I can only describe as "spring-loaded": The front of the three touchdown points seems compressed proportionally to the vessels mass, and as soon as any tiny force acts on the vessel (like for example firing any of its rcs thrusters for a microsecond), the spring is released... The more massive the vessel, the more impressive the result. It is observable with a stock dg: When you put it on a pad with the scenario editor and then punch any RCS button, its nose will make a small hop upwards (the effect is, of course, proportional to the local gravity, so earth isn't the best place for the experiment).

With more massive vessels this can go as far as flipping it on its back, or off planet. I am aware that this feature probably mostly relates to the scenario editor, not to the core, but it would be nice if it could be fixed.

And once again, sorry for my unfounded report above.

Last edited by jedidia; 10-05-2016 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 10-06-2016, 05:43 AM   #221
JonnyBGoode
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Stupid question: I'm working on seeing if the Outer Planets mod by VF2_Rolf can be brought up to work in 2016, and am making some decent headway. But I'm curious: There are a few moons that have irregular meshes: is there any way of making the meshes behave like the earth/moon/mars meshes? I.e. allow landing on these bodies to conform to the surfaces of the mesh? (I think right now the crafts land on an invisible sphere surrounding the moons.)
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Old 10-06-2016, 06:08 AM   #222
jedidia
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There are a few moons that have irregular meshes: is there any way of making the meshes behave like the earth/moon/mars meshes?
There wasn't in Orbiter 2010, but in 2016 you can define their surface with elevation data, as was done for Deimos and Phobos. It won't be very easy converting the meshes to useful elevation data, though.
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Old 10-07-2016, 12:58 AM   #223
JonnyBGoode
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I'm not sure if this is related to the breakup around the planets atmosphere that has been discussed here or not, but I was docked to the Aurora space station (in a circumpolar orbit), and as I passed over Antarctica I took this interesting screenshot. Notice the parallel banding; it tended to break up at points (you can see just above the space station there's a section that becomes double-wide).

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Old 10-07-2016, 10:33 AM   #224
jarmonik
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Originally Posted by JonnyBGoode View Post
 I'm not sure if this is related to the breakup around the planets atmosphere that has been discussed here or not, but I was docked to the Aurora space station (in a circumpolar orbit), and as I passed over Antarctica I took this interesting screenshot. Notice the parallel banding; it tended to break up at points (you can see just above the space station there's a section that becomes double-wide).
That could be related to a cloud shadows. It's know that they can cause issues like that in the inline engine but should not happen in D3D9. Try disabling cloud shadows and see if the problem disappears.
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Old 10-07-2016, 04:14 PM   #225
jedidia
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Huh... Has something changed in the way stock autopilots are handled since the release version? It appears like they are now unable to use rcs thrusters that weren't there at sim-start.
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