My first flight to the moon - Orbiter-Forum

Killer Toilet · 10-06-2009, 02:45 AM

I did NOT use TransX or IMFD, but extensively used both Orbit and Map IMFDs, as well as burn up half of the world's fuel reserves during the process. I was reading in the PDF about how to go from a higher or a lower orbit. I did that, and it worked out great. I am still a noob at IMFD, and this is not my first flight to another body, as I winged it before and flew into the Sun only to end up on Mercury, then orbited it.

But I thought I realized that I could gradually make my orbit bigger, and still keep the eccentricy to 0 when I made it larger. It was fine, until I got my gravity to around 40, when my DVI started to act crazy due to low gravity. I was forced to go back into an orbit closer to Earth, and attempt this again.

Anyway, after that time, I was on the verge of giving up when all of a sudden, I turned prograde, and the Moon was filling up the full side of my entire right side of the screen. I now had the influence of the Moon's gravity, but unfortunately, I do not yet know how to orbit an object that I approach. I only know how to orbit one that I launched from. To orbit from another orbit, my best and only guess is to go enter at an angle at the desending node and do a prograde burn to attain orbit, which is impossible to do without understanding IMFD or TransX. I remember a few weeks ago that I landed only a few miles at KSC from where I needed to land, and landing at a precise location is nearly impossible for me to do, but decided to land at Brighton Beach. I knew I had no way to keep orbit, but I hit the Moon's surface HARD and glithced my way into a permanant roll.

I am still happy I got to another body other than Earth without cheating. There is NO way in Hell I will try to attempt to go to Mars without using IMFD or TransX.

Anyway, I went to the Moon at least, and possibly killed my passengers along the way. Oh well.

Shadow Addict · 10-06-2009, 03:03 AM

You set up a fly-by trajectory to the moon and then burn retrograde once you reach pericynthion to insert yourself into lunar orbit. LunarTransferMFD is a simple way to do this.

**insanity** · 10-06-2009, 03:08 AM

I have no idea why you went about it the way you did, but congratulations for putting yourself on another body! A few tips:

Your orbit HUD can be switched to show information about different bodies by selecting the body in the Orbit MFD and clicking HUD.

Watch the Orbit MFD- using the HUD try and adjust your moon-relative path so that you have a PeA between 50-150km. As your approach PeA burn retrograde and you will be in a lunar orbit.

IMFD is a lot simpler than it seems. Ask yourself questions about what you want to do and try and find programs within IMFD that will do that. For example, when I'm going from an aligned LEO to the moon I start by asking myself, "What am I trying to do?" The answer is intercepting a target by plotting a course. So I go to course->target intercept and click TGT and type moon. The next screen is the scary part because there is a lot of info to digest. The initial solution will need to be modified to meet your needs, so you ask yourself, "What kind of delta-v and time budget am I limited by?" The answer is related to fuel and life-support capacity. Using the 100x adjustment mode I lower my enroute time and check how much delta-v is needed for each new solution. Using smaller and smaller adjustments, I try to find the compromise point between fuel and time- with the moon that tends to be between 75-85 hours depending on objectives. Because I'm plotting a course within a system, real-time burns are acceptable from altitudes of 300km, so I click NXT->BV->AB to get the burn vectors and enable the auto burn.

Hints: watching the BV window enable AB when ever the burn-time begins to climb above 5 seconds or so to do an MCC. IMFD will more than likely put you on a collision course with the moon, so when you get within the moon's SOI use programs that will help approach.

Killer Toilet · 10-06-2009, 03:28 AM

I know about the orbit MFD about the different bodies. It would have been impossible for me to do it that way without it.

Now that I am thinking about it, I should have let it take me past a flyby then burned retrograde as soon as I would have been sure I was going to orbit it.

Anyway, this proved to me at least that the simplest MFDs can be used for a complex space flight for noobs. Is there any possible way for me to attain a stable orbit past 40? If so, then I would try this method again, but this time land on the Moon without screwing up on the landing part, as I would approach it by flying towards it in it's own orbit.

Tommy · 10-06-2009, 03:30 AM

This covers Earth to moon and back, interplanetary flights, etc, using IMFD.

IMFD Full Manual/Playbacks

It's a good place to start learning IMFD, but doesn't cover the theory very much. I'd recommend some of the more general tutorials like "Go Play In Space" and "Deep Space" to go along with it. Check the "Recommended Tutorials" links in the tutorials forum.

atuhalpa · 10-06-2009, 02:08 PM

There is no way in hell you CAN get to Mars without using TransX or IMFD. (At least at your level of familiarity with Orbiter.)

Ghostrider · 10-06-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanity

congratulations for putting yourself on another body!

Now, this is just priceless.

**insanity** · 10-06-2009, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

Now, this is just priceless.

An accomplishment like that is monumental and is deserving of praise. Besides, it is common to experience problems the first few times. I remember my first go on another body... I think I crashed a bit sooner than I'd like, but I was young and didn't know better.

Ghostrider · 10-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanity

An accomplishment like that is monumental and is deserving of praise. Besides, it is common to experience problems the first few times. I remember my first go on another body... I think I crashed a bit sooner than I'd like, but I was young and didn't know better.

I was referring to the double entendre, but you just upped the ante on this!

**insanity** · 10-06-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghostrider

I was referring to the double entendre, but you just upped the ante on this!

I have no idea what you're talking about

P.S. Good catch, I was hoping someone would take the bait.

Ghostrider · 10-06-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insanity

I was hoping someone would take the bait.

How can one resist...

Pilot7893 · 10-06-2009, 08:00 PM

We can always rely on GhostRider to post something witty and original.

Ghostrider · 10-06-2009, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot7893

We can always rely on GhostRider to post something witty and original.

Thanks, but please give Insanity his due: there was absolutely no way that exchange could have taken place without his absolutely great bait game!

Killer Toilet · 10-07-2009, 04:57 AM

I went to the Moon again, but this time following the exact instuctions in the IMFD tutorial. I was shaking like crazy and was scared out of my mind when I saw that the ship in Auto Burn was going to the moon's surface fast. I was freaked out when I saw both the altitude and the time to burn drop quickly. Thankfully, it stopped at 12KM exactly as I put it in the instuctions. But then again, I got a stable orbit around the Moon. I needed to reboot my PC because Windows Explorer crashed and wouldn't get the tabs at the bottom back.

On the IMFD tutorial about going from Mars to Phobos, it said it was the exact same as going to the Moon. Does this mean I could do different fuctions in IMFD to get to one place?

kneejo · 10-07-2009, 03:05 PM

hey killer. you might find

Map3D MFD

a useful help. It shows a 3d map of the solar system, so you can always see where your current trajectory will take you. It helps visualizing how everything orbits around each other.. it also shows the Spheres Of Influence of the bodies, so you'll know if you'll be captured by the moon, or mars, or whatever body, by checking if your trajectory line intersects with the SOI.

10-06-2009, 02:45 AM	#1
Killer Toilet Orbinaut	My first flight to the moon I did NOT use TransX or IMFD, but extensively used both Orbit and Map IMFDs, as well as burn up half of the world's fuel reserves during the process. I was reading in the PDF about how to go from a higher or a lower orbit. I did that, and it worked out great. I am still a noob at IMFD, and this is not my first flight to another body, as I winged it before and flew into the Sun only to end up on Mercury, then orbited it. But I thought I realized that I could gradually make my orbit bigger, and still keep the eccentricy to 0 when I made it larger. It was fine, until I got my gravity to around 40, when my DVI started to act crazy due to low gravity. I was forced to go back into an orbit closer to Earth, and attempt this again. Anyway, after that time, I was on the verge of giving up when all of a sudden, I turned prograde, and the Moon was filling up the full side of my entire right side of the screen. I now had the influence of the Moon's gravity, but unfortunately, I do not yet know how to orbit an object that I approach. I only know how to orbit one that I launched from. To orbit from another orbit, my best and only guess is to go enter at an angle at the desending node and do a prograde burn to attain orbit, which is impossible to do without understanding IMFD or TransX. I remember a few weeks ago that I landed only a few miles at KSC from where I needed to land, and landing at a precise location is nearly impossible for me to do, but decided to land at Brighton Beach. I knew I had no way to keep orbit, but I hit the Moon's surface HARD and glithced my way into a permanant roll. I am still happy I got to another body other than Earth without cheating. There is NO way in Hell I will try to attempt to go to Mars without using IMFD or TransX. Anyway, I went to the Moon at least, and possibly killed my passengers along the way. Oh well.

10-06-2009, 03:30 AM	#5
Tommy Orbinaut	This covers Earth to moon and back, interplanetary flights, etc, using IMFD. IMFD Full Manual/Playbacks IMFD Full Manual/Playbacks It's a good place to start learning IMFD, but doesn't cover the theory very much. I'd recommend some of the more general tutorials like "Go Play In Space" and "Deep Space" to go along with it. Check the "Recommended Tutorials" links in the tutorials forum.

10-07-2009, 03:05 PM	#15
kneejo Astronut	hey killer. you might find Map3D MFD Map3D MFD a useful help. It shows a 3d map of the solar system, so you can always see where your current trajectory will take you. It helps visualizing how everything orbits around each other.. it also shows the Spheres Of Influence of the bodies, so you'll know if you'll be captured by the moon, or mars, or whatever body, by checking if your trajectory line intersects with the SOI.

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10-06-2009, 03:03 AM	#2
Shadow Addict Orbinaut	You set up a fly-by trajectory to the moon and then burn retrograde once you reach pericynthion to insert yourself into lunar orbit. LunarTransferMFD is a simple way to do this.

10-06-2009, 03:08 AM	#3
insanity Blastronaut	I have no idea why you went about it the way you did, but congratulations for putting yourself on another body! A few tips: Your orbit HUD can be switched to show information about different bodies by selecting the body in the Orbit MFD and clicking HUD. Watch the Orbit MFD- using the HUD try and adjust your moon-relative path so that you have a PeA between 50-150km. As your approach PeA burn retrograde and you will be in a lunar orbit. IMFD is a lot simpler than it seems. Ask yourself questions about what you want to do and try and find programs within IMFD that will do that. For example, when I'm going from an aligned LEO to the moon I start by asking myself, "What am I trying to do?" The answer is intercepting a target by plotting a course. So I go to course->target intercept and click TGT and type moon. The next screen is the scary part because there is a lot of info to digest. The initial solution will need to be modified to meet your needs, so you ask yourself, "What kind of delta-v and time budget am I limited by?" The answer is related to fuel and life-support capacity. Using the 100x adjustment mode I lower my enroute time and check how much delta-v is needed for each new solution. Using smaller and smaller adjustments, I try to find the compromise point between fuel and time- with the moon that tends to be between 75-85 hours depending on objectives. Because I'm plotting a course within a system, real-time burns are acceptable from altitudes of 300km, so I click NXT->BV->AB to get the burn vectors and enable the auto burn. Hints: watching the BV window enable AB when ever the burn-time begins to climb above 5 seconds or so to do an MCC. IMFD will more than likely put you on a collision course with the moon, so when you get within the moon's SOI use programs that will help approach.

10-06-2009, 03:28 AM	#4
Killer Toilet Orbinaut	I know about the orbit MFD about the different bodies. It would have been impossible for me to do it that way without it. Now that I am thinking about it, I should have let it take me past a flyby then burned retrograde as soon as I would have been sure I was going to orbit it. Anyway, this proved to me at least that the simplest MFDs can be used for a complex space flight for noobs. Is there any possible way for me to attain a stable orbit past 40? If so, then I would try this method again, but this time land on the Moon without screwing up on the landing part, as I would approach it by flying towards it in it's own orbit.

10-06-2009, 02:08 PM	#6
atuhalpa Orbinaut	There is no way in hell you CAN get to Mars without using TransX or IMFD. (At least at your level of familiarity with Orbiter.)

10-06-2009, 02:34 PM	#7
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by insanity congratulations for putting yourself on another body! Now, this is just priceless.

10-06-2009, 02:40 PM	#8
insanity Blastronaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostrider Now, this is just priceless. An accomplishment like that is monumental and is deserving of praise. Besides, it is common to experience problems the first few times. I remember my first go on another body... I think I crashed a bit sooner than I'd like, but I was young and didn't know better.

10-06-2009, 03:23 PM	#9
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by insanity An accomplishment like that is monumental and is deserving of praise. Besides, it is common to experience problems the first few times. I remember my first go on another body... I think I crashed a bit sooner than I'd like, but I was young and didn't know better. I was referring to the double entendre, but you just upped the ante on this!

10-06-2009, 03:43 PM	#10
insanity Blastronaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Ghostrider I was referring to the double entendre, but you just upped the ante on this! I have no idea what you're talking about P.S. Good catch, I was hoping someone would take the bait.

10-06-2009, 03:46 PM	#11
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by insanity I was hoping someone would take the bait. How can one resist...

10-06-2009, 08:00 PM	#12
Pilot7893 Epik spaec mishun!	We can always rely on GhostRider to post something witty and original.

10-06-2009, 08:24 PM	#13
Ghostrider Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Pilot7893 We can always rely on GhostRider to post something witty and original. Thanks, but please give Insanity his due: there was absolutely no way that exchange could have taken place without his absolutely great bait game!

10-07-2009, 04:57 AM	#14
Killer Toilet Orbinaut	I went to the Moon again, but this time following the exact instuctions in the IMFD tutorial. I was shaking like crazy and was scared out of my mind when I saw that the ship in Auto Burn was going to the moon's surface fast. I was freaked out when I saw both the altitude and the time to burn drop quickly. Thankfully, it stopped at 12KM exactly as I put it in the instuctions. But then again, I got a stable orbit around the Moon. I needed to reboot my PC because Windows Explorer crashed and wouldn't get the tabs at the bottom back. On the IMFD tutorial about going from Mars to Phobos, it said it was the exact same as going to the Moon. Does this mean I could do different fuctions in IMFD to get to one place?