Scientific Method Mega Thread - Page 2 - Orbiter-Forum

RisingFury · 05-14-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyh-12

RisingFury, I tried it before and it gave me weird results, that's why I asked. I tried it again and...

{image}

Wolfram Alpha calculation

On a lighter note, I had a Slovenian teacher in highschool who was an utter moron. She wasn't even a good Slovenian teacher and she didn't even know the subject all that well. She started hating me day one, after I corrected some of her misconceptions about Einstein's theory of relativity and science in general. She has a very closed mind and believes God personally created Earth and the universe for the existence of mankind.

Dambuster · 05-14-2011, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarvitä

Lunatics like that have no place in the education system. Refer her to her superiors.

What matters is that she's a good English teacher. For all we know, one day she read some website which said that the Moon landings were a hoax and that played on her lack of knowledge about science, and then failed to fact-check that website. Or even if she does know a lot about it, perhaps she's thought about all the evidence from the assumption that it was faked, and arrived at the conclusion that it was a fake. Either way, I think it's a moot point: provided she sticks to teaching English, she has a right to have her own opinion, and she should be allowed to continue to teach English. Just not science

And RE the original post: I'd be very careful in what you do here - it's entirely possible that she's absolutely hate being challenged, and never really forgive you if you do. And there are going to be some people out there who are just so illogical in certain ways that no amount of 'proper' logic is going to convince them otherwise. If you do decide to bring it up again with her (and you want to minimise the possibility that she'll dislike your challenging her), I'd highly recommend doing it when there are no other people around, just so you don't embarrass her.

**Hielor** · 05-14-2011, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dambuster

What matters is that she's a good English teacher. For all we know, one day she read some website which said that the Moon landings were a hoax and that played on her lack of knowledge about science, and then failed to fact-check that website. Or even if she does know a lot about it, perhaps she's thought about all the evidence from the assumption that it was faked, and arrived at the conclusion that it was a fake. Either way, I think it's a moot point: provided she sticks to teaching English, she has a right to have her own opinion, and she should be allowed to continue to teach English. Just not science

I disagree.

As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her.

She has no place in an institution of learning.

Dambuster · 05-14-2011, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

I disagree.

As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her.

She has no place in an institution of learning.

I understand your point, but I can't agree that a good teacher should not be allowed to teach because he/she has mentioned opinions we disagree with.

Fizyk · 05-14-2011, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

I disagree.

As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her.

She has no place in an institution of learning.

I'd personally prefer an English teacher who is awesome at English and can teach it in an interesting way, but doesn't know a thing about science, than one who knows something about science but makes English lessons totally boring.

**Hielor** · 05-14-2011, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dambuster

I understand your point, but I can't agree that a good teacher should not be allowed to teach because he/she has mentioned opinions we disagree with.

It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood--and it's not that we disagree, it's that she's wrong. I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers.

Fizyk · 05-14-2011, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers.

Ok, but you still can try reasoning with her, there is a chance you'll be able to explain the misconception, especially if she's an otherwise good teacher and listens to the students. I just don't think assuming she won't change her mind from the start is the best option.

River Crab · 05-15-2011, 03:14 AM

Funny...I had an English teacher who I also consider one of my best in high school, and he told the class he didn't believe the Moon landings, either...even showed a video...

However, it was really a device for teaching about disillusionment and logical (although not quite scientific) thinking; to tell students not to believe in things blindly, or just because they wanted to. He wanted people to debate about it, and stir up their thoughts.

I debated where I could, of course, even sent him some links to pages claiming that the Shenzhou missions were a conspiracy...after all, we have an easier time believing what we want to believe...
I think he might have actually believed in the moon landings happening after all. Just said he didn't to get people going. Fun guy.

Your teacher could just be a looney, though, in which case, don't make too much fuss. You know the truth.

JEL · 05-15-2011, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood--and it's not that we disagree, it's that she's wrong. I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

She has no place in an institution of learning.

Your only option is to send your kids to a school that teaches according to YOUR beliefs.

It's not a crime to belong to a minority that believes in a non-mainstream world-view, and nor should it ever be again (in the dark ages round-earth believers were hunted and killed for such 'crazy' beliefs)

Anybody advocating pure absolutist world-views are potentially dangerous:

Quote:

Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest.

(I made the last part appear in bold text)

jthill · 05-15-2011, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hielor

I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers.

How better to teach your kids the proper limits to authority?

**Hielor** · 05-15-2011, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JEL

Your only option is to send your kids to a school that teaches according to YOUR beliefs.

It's not a crime to belong to a minority that believes in a non-mainstream world-view, and nor should it ever be again (in the dark ages round-earth believers were hunted and killed for such 'crazy' beliefs)

Anybody advocating pure absolutist world-views are potentially dangerous:

(I made the last part appear in bold text)

You're confusing science and religion. Believing that the moon doesn't have gravity isn't a "non-mainstream world-view." It's ridiculous.

I don't care what people believe, and I don't want to make it a crime to believe whatever you want. It should, however, be a crime to infect the minds of our youth with such idiocy.

T.Neo · 05-15-2011, 10:19 AM

Yeah, here's the difference: We've actually been to the Moon, there are people out there who have walked on the Moon and jumped on the Moon and dropped stuff on the Moon and even driven a vehicle about on the Moon, and they know what it's like.

Galileo was persecuted for following a worldview that conflicted with the mainstream worldview of the time, that wasn't supported by any such hard evidence, and was in fact superseded by a worldview that better fit the evidence.

Claiming there isn't any gravity on the Moon isn't "a different worldview" that should be accepted and tolerated; it's stupidity.

I don't know if people like her should be immediately ousted from the education system, but it should be given serious thought.

Coolhand · 05-15-2011, 11:11 AM

wow, an ignorant teacher, who'd a thunk it...

Teachers teach their own personal beliefs constantly, maybe its just my own experience but i find teachers are as weird as anyone else, and often weirder. Perfect teachers are not possible to have... If she wants to have that belief, fine.. its not a part of the lesson apparently even.

Students can always look things up for themselves, whats dangerous is if people are educated to believe blindly what any authority figure tells them. Which to my mind is often what education is about, more about indoctrination than education.

Take the information you need to get through your education and get good grades, and ignore the BS if you can.

Look stuff up for yourself and make your own mind up, otherwise this COULD HAPPEN TO YOU.

YouTube - Buzz Aldrin hits a Falcon Punch

jedidia · 05-15-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood

which comes from all our lips every now and then, nothing wrong with that, really, as long as it's sincere error it isn't lying. Although it might be prudent for the directorate to tell her that she's supposed to teach english and please not mix in fields she doesn't have any Ideas about. And a few hours sitting in in physics class to brush up. It's not like teachers don't have to learn.

N_Molson · 05-15-2011, 01:25 PM

I hope she doesn't make a single mistake in English, because if it is the case, it looks like she will never ever admit it.

And then she will teach false things in her discipline, which is a problem.

Here, teachers have some kind of code that holds in 10 laws. Amongst them, "it is required for teachers to have good general knowledge" (which also implies that you have to stay up to date). Seems it isn't the case here.

05-14-2011, 07:44 PM	#16
RisingFury OBSP developer	Quote: Originally Posted by Rtyh-12 RisingFury, I tried it before and it gave me weird results, that's why I asked. I tried it again and... {image} Wolfram Alpha calculation On a lighter note, I had a Slovenian teacher in highschool who was an utter moron. She wasn't even a good Slovenian teacher and she didn't even know the subject all that well. She started hating me day one, after I corrected some of her misconceptions about Einstein's theory of relativity and science in general. She has a very closed mind and believes God personally created Earth and the universe for the existence of mankind. Last edited by RisingFury; 05-14-2011 at 07:48 PM.

05-14-2011, 08:03 PM	#17
Dambuster Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Jarvitä Lunatics like that have no place in the education system. Refer her to her superiors. What matters is that she's a good English teacher. For all we know, one day she read some website which said that the Moon landings were a hoax and that played on her lack of knowledge about science, and then failed to fact-check that website. Or even if she does know a lot about it, perhaps she's thought about all the evidence from the assumption that it was faked, and arrived at the conclusion that it was a fake. Either way, I think it's a moot point: provided she sticks to teaching English, she has a right to have her own opinion, and she should be allowed to continue to teach English. Just not science And RE the original post: I'd be very careful in what you do here - it's entirely possible that she's absolutely hate being challenged, and never really forgive you if you do. And there are going to be some people out there who are just so illogical in certain ways that no amount of 'proper' logic is going to convince them otherwise. If you do decide to bring it up again with her (and you want to minimise the possibility that she'll dislike your challenging her), I'd highly recommend doing it when there are no other people around, just so you don't embarrass her. Last edited by Dambuster; 05-14-2011 at 08:12 PM.

05-15-2011, 10:19 AM	#27
T.Neo SA 2010 Soccermaniac	Yeah, here's the difference: We've actually been to the Moon, there are people out there who have walked on the Moon and jumped on the Moon and dropped stuff on the Moon and even driven a vehicle about on the Moon, and they know what it's like. Galileo was persecuted for following a worldview that conflicted with the mainstream worldview of the time, that wasn't supported by any such hard evidence, and was in fact superseded by a worldview that better fit the evidence. Claiming there isn't any gravity on the Moon isn't "a different worldview" that should be accepted and tolerated; it's stupidity. I don't know if people like her should be immediately ousted from the education system, but it should be given serious thought. Last edited by T.Neo; 05-15-2011 at 10:21 AM.

Quick Links	Need Help?
About Us Register to Participate Orbiter Website Orbiter Download Projects Recommended Addons Orbit Hangar Mods Photo Gallery Social Groups External Links	Did you forget your password? Rules & Guidelines Frequently Asked Questions Orbiter F.A.Q. Orbiter Tutorials Orbiter IRC Chat Search Forum Site Map Contact Us Mark Forums Read

05-14-2011, 09:39 PM	#18
Hielor Defender of Truth	Quote: Originally Posted by Dambuster What matters is that she's a good English teacher. For all we know, one day she read some website which said that the Moon landings were a hoax and that played on her lack of knowledge about science, and then failed to fact-check that website. Or even if she does know a lot about it, perhaps she's thought about all the evidence from the assumption that it was faked, and arrived at the conclusion that it was a fake. Either way, I think it's a moot point: provided she sticks to teaching English, she has a right to have her own opinion, and she should be allowed to continue to teach English. Just not science I disagree. As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her. She has no place in an institution of learning.

05-14-2011, 10:46 PM	#19
Dambuster Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor I disagree. As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her. She has no place in an institution of learning. I understand your point, but I can't agree that a good teacher should not be allowed to teach because he/she has mentioned opinions we disagree with.

05-14-2011, 10:51 PM	#20
Fizyk Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor I disagree. As a teacher, she's in a position of respect over students. Even though she's an English teacher, it's entirely possible that she could bring this up in an offhanded manner, and students could end up believing her. She has no place in an institution of learning. I'd personally prefer an English teacher who is awesome at English and can teach it in an interesting way, but doesn't know a thing about science, than one who knows something about science but makes English lessons totally boring.

05-14-2011, 10:56 PM	#21
Hielor Defender of Truth	Quote: Originally Posted by Dambuster I understand your point, but I can't agree that a good teacher should not be allowed to teach because he/she has mentioned opinions we disagree with. It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood--and it's not that we disagree, it's that she's wrong. I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers.

05-14-2011, 11:15 PM	#22
Fizyk Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers. Ok, but you still can try reasoning with her, there is a chance you'll be able to explain the misconception, especially if she's an otherwise good teacher and listens to the students. I just don't think assuming she won't change her mind from the start is the best option.

05-15-2011, 03:14 AM	#23
River Crab SpaceX Cheer Captain	Funny...I had an English teacher who I also consider one of my best in high school, and he told the class he didn't believe the Moon landings, either...even showed a video... However, it was really a device for teaching about disillusionment and logical (although not quite scientific) thinking; to tell students not to believe in things blindly, or just because they wanted to. He wanted people to debate about it, and stir up their thoughts. I debated where I could, of course, even sent him some links to pages claiming that the Shenzhou missions were a conspiracy...after all, we have an easier time believing what we want to believe... I think he might have actually believed in the moon landings happening after all. Just said he didn't to get people going. Fun guy. Your teacher could just be a looney, though, in which case, don't make too much fuss. You know the truth.

05-15-2011, 03:17 AM	#24
JEL Addon Developer	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood--and it's not that we disagree, it's that she's wrong. I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers. Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor She has no place in an institution of learning. Your only option is to send your kids to a school that teaches according to YOUR beliefs. It's not a crime to belong to a minority that believes in a non-mainstream world-view, and nor should it ever be again (in the dark ages round-earth believers were hunted and killed for such 'crazy' beliefs) Anybody advocating pure absolutist world-views are potentially dangerous: Quote: Galileo's championing of Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when a large majority of philosophers and astronomers still subscribed to the geocentric view that the Earth is at the centre of the universe. After 1610, when he began publicly supporting the heliocentric view, which placed the Sun at the centre of the universe, he met with bitter opposition from some philosophers and clerics, and two of the latter eventually denounced him to the Roman Inquisition early in 1615. In February 1616, although he had been cleared of any offence, the Catholic Church nevertheless condemned heliocentrism as "false and contrary to Scripture",[10] and Galileo was warned to abandon his support for it—which he promised to do. When he later defended his views in his most famous work, Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, published in 1632, he was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", forced to recant, and spent the rest of his life under house arrest. (I made the last part appear in bold text)

05-15-2011, 04:34 AM	#25
jthill Orbinaut	Quote: Originally Posted by Hielor I certainly wouldn't want any children of mine picking up such ridiculous falsehoods from their teachers. How better to teach your kids the proper limits to authority?

05-15-2011, 04:55 AM	#26
Hielor Defender of Truth	Quote: Originally Posted by JEL Your only option is to send your kids to a school that teaches according to YOUR beliefs. It's not a crime to belong to a minority that believes in a non-mainstream world-view, and nor should it ever be again (in the dark ages round-earth believers were hunted and killed for such 'crazy' beliefs) Anybody advocating pure absolutist world-views are potentially dangerous: (I made the last part appear in bold text) You're confusing science and religion. Believing that the moon doesn't have gravity isn't a "non-mainstream world-view." It's ridiculous. I don't care what people believe, and I don't want to make it a crime to believe whatever you want. It should, however, be a crime to infect the minds of our youth with such idiocy.

05-15-2011, 01:11 PM	#29
jedidia shoemaker without legs	Quote: It's not an opinion, it's a blatant falsehood which comes from all our lips every now and then, nothing wrong with that, really, as long as it's sincere error it isn't lying. Although it might be prudent for the directorate to tell her that she's supposed to teach english and please not mix in fields she doesn't have any Ideas about. And a few hours sitting in in physics class to brush up. It's not like teachers don't have to learn.

05-15-2011, 01:25 PM	#30
N_Molson Addon Developer	I hope she doesn't make a single mistake in English, because if it is the case, it looks like she will never ever admit it. And then she will teach false things in her discipline, which is a problem. Here, teachers have some kind of code that holds in 10 laws. Amongst them, "it is required for teachers to have good general knowledge" (which also implies that you have to stay up to date). Seems it isn't the case here.