A11 - MCC scenario - NASSP v8 rev.1756 - General checklist items questions from 82h to 98h GET

[thermocalc]

Hi all,

Sorry to be back so soon with CSM/LM related questions while in lunar orbit …but want to make sure I am OK with my missions and I didn't screw up things....
I am observing the following facts from approx. GET 82h to 98h…mission time.

1) During “LM Comm activation” I saw a lot of yellow text concerning “voice checks”, see “photo 1 – voice checks”…can I skip all or shall I have to call up MCC menu and hit “1 – Voice check” any time a yellow text is displayed?
2) From about GET 83h to 84h while in the CSM, CSM tunnel hatch as well as LM hatch open, and CDR+LMP inside the LM I keep having “HI O2 FLOW” alarms from time to time, it happened at least 3 times every approx. 10min…the O2 flow meter start increasing go to max triggering the alarm, and then by itself is going down and then up again .. it seems like is having some sort of oscillatory behaviors…is it normal at this stage of the mission? If so, what is the physics behind this “periodical” behavior? I set the PAMFD ECS crew numbers as in the checklist, 2 in LM and 1 in CSM, and "in cabin" at all times ...
3) I saw the following yellow texts in the checklists at about 96h GET before the EPS LM activation: “LMP LM Familiarization”, “CDR Don PGA w/o Helmet&Gloves”, I guess I must do anything … right?
4) At time 96h20m during “CDR to LM ECS” there is a yellow text indicating “Connect CDR suit hoses”…I guess nothing to do here, just “skip” this line with PRO and go on with the next items in the checklist, right? (see photo 3) – same applies for the “Connect LMP suit hoses” later on the checklist for “LMP to LM ECS”….right?
5) When time came to power up the C/W and LGC I got these orange alarms lights on I the LGC: TEMP, PROG, RESTART; while the last 2 went away later on (on schedule) the TEMP alarm was always steady on, even at about GET +97h after completing all LM systems tasks…is it normal? see “photo 4 – TEMP alarm still ON” on LGC.
6) At about 97h during “Sec S-BD TR & PWR AMPL check” the following yellow texts are there: “Notify MSFN or SEC S-BD check” and “Perform Comm Check”…and again yellow texts at GET > 97h during VHF B and A checkout, “Perform Voice check on WHF Simplex B” and “Perform Voice Check on VHF Simplex A” --- I guess can be “skipped”…they are just for information, right? Same as my question 1?
7) Finally a possible texture related issues? With the CSM tunnel hatch open and LM overhead hatch open from the CSM “looking trough the LM tunnel” you see the “outside of the LM” not the interior, from the LM “locking trough the CSM tunnel” you see the inside of the LEB, which seems ok. Can it be only a my PC issues? (I guess as I saw nobody reported this in the forum), see “photo

thanks.
PC

 

[rcflyinghokie]

1) During “LM Comm activation” I saw a lot of yellow text concerning “voice checks”, see “photo 1 – voice checks”…can I skip all or shall I have to call up MCC menu and hit “1 – Voice check” any time a yellow text is displayed?

Voice checks aren't currently simulated, so you can just proceed through those. That is why they are currently yellow as "placeholders."

2) From about GET 83h to 84h while in the CSM, CSM tunnel hatch as well as LM hatch open, and CDR+LMP inside the LM I keep having “HI O2 FLOW” alarms from time to time, it happened at least 3 times every approx. 10min…the O2 flow meter start increasing go to max triggering the alarm, and then by itself is going down and then up again .. it seems like is having some sort of oscillatory behaviors…is it normal at this stage of the mission? If so, what is the physics behind this “periodical” behavior? I set the PAMFD ECS crew numbers as in the checklist, 2 in LM and 1 in CSM, and "in cabin" at all times ...

Based on this comment and your temperature comment, I am wondering if you are using an older scenario with the newer version of NASSP. If that is the case its possibly your scenario file is missing certain things and changes that were added. Can you please post a scn file so I can investigate and see if this is indeed the case?

3) I saw the following yellow texts in the checklists at about 96h GET before the EPS LM activation: “LMP LM Familiarization”, “CDR Don PGA w/o Helmet&Gloves”, I guess I must do anything … right?

Same as answer #1, those are currently placeholders. I do have plans for making the suits function a little better by including a helmet and gloves on/off condition in the future.

4) At time 96h20m during “CDR to LM ECS” there is a yellow text indicating “Connect CDR suit hoses”…I guess nothing to do here, just “skip” this line with PRO and go on with the next items in the checklist, right? (see photo 3) – same applies for the “Connect LMP suit hoses” later on the checklist for “LMP to LM ECS”….right?

Same answer as #1, those are placeholders for features we have yet to implement.

5) When time came to power up the C/W and LGC I got these orange alarms lights on I the LGC: TEMP, PROG, RESTART; while the last 2 went away later on (on schedule) the TEMP alarm was always steady on, even at about GET +97h after completing all LM systems tasks…is it normal? see “photo 4 – TEMP alarm still ON” on LGC.

This makes me think you have an older scn file with a newer version of NASSP, as stated in #2 please post your scn file so I can take a look.

6) At about 97h during “Sec S-BD TR & PWR AMPL check” the following yellow texts are there: “Notify MSFN or SEC S-BD check” and “Perform Comm Check”…and again yellow texts at GET > 97h during VHF B and A checkout, “Perform Voice check on WHF Simplex B” and “Perform Voice Check on VHF Simplex A” --- I guess can be “skipped”…they are just for information, right? Same as my question 1?

Same answer as #1, features not implemented an those are placeholders.

7) Finally a possible texture related issues? With the CSM tunnel hatch open and LM overhead hatch open from the CSM “looking trough the LM tunnel” you see the “outside of the LM” not the interior, from the LM “locking trough the CSM tunnel” you see the inside of the LEB, which seems ok. Can it be only a my PC issues? (I guess as I saw nobody reported this in the forum), see “photo

This has likely been identified before, but I don't think it has much traction yet. What FOV are you using inside the spacecraft? You should be using 60 to have everything appear correct (other than optics panels which set the proper FOV automatically.

 

[rcflyinghokie]

Also if you like, you can keep your mission questions in one thread, makes it a bit easier, both for us troubleshooting and likely for you, to keep track in one place instead of multiple threads Feel free to keep using this one moving forward and we will see it just as easily.

 

[thermocalc]

Thanks for the quick answers...I arrived to the "AGS set time" just over +99h after getting the MCC update in the LM ... and I stop here for a while.

Before starting Apollo 11 I downloaded "Orbiter Beta r90", with "D3D9ClientBeta30.7-forBETA r90(r1436)" than on top I loaded the "NASSP-V8.0-Beta-Orbiter2016-1756" revision.

To start I "think" to have used the "Apollo 11 MCC - Launch" and I am keep saving scenarios from time to time to move one day by day, to save I use "Scenario Editor" hitting "save" option and entering the scenario title (I said "think" as to be honest, I was experiencing problems with the automatic checklist execution when starting from the -4h countdown; but after installing and updating everything from scratch I didn't have more issues-; as the problems were related to SM RCS activation and EPO insertion ( from T -20min" ) I am not so sure now if I started my new mission with the real +4h countdown or I just by using the "Apollo 11 - 01 - Before Launch T-20min" scenario (which I supposed to be UPDATED with the newest revision) to don't lost another evening of switch flipping only .... if so I am very sorry for this silly mistake from mine

I send you some scenarios taken at these times for your troubleshooting:

T -5m to Apollo 11 Lift Off -> the scenario I saved just before launching .... all others are coming from this one -> if this is wrong all others will also be wrong.

T +83h 12m when I got the 1st O2 high flow alarm (I was using time acceleration x10 before it was happening)

T +83h 19m when I got the 2nd O2 high flow alarm (starting from the previous scenario, after a while the O2 flow indicator went down and then started again to raise up to give a second alarm, I used time acceleration x10 before I happened)

T +96h 20m by powering up the LM I got the PROG and TEMP alarm … if I go on to do the PGNS activation as instructed by the checklist, the PROG goes away but the TEMP stay on…

T +99h 03m where I am now, just got the SV updates and LS REFSMMAT from MCC and I should do the AGS initialization…TEMP light is still on.



About texture and FOV ….
I saw I was using 90 degree FOV, for some reasons, but more generally (as I am using a laptop with screen ratio 16:9) I always have issues with the correct “screen view” set-up, as if I use the arrow keys the views are always “scrolling” … I was wondering what is the “native” screen resolution to use in NASSP? to have the "scree fixed" so to speak...for sighting outside the windows is really a problem...I had hard time to dock as the COAS was moving around depending on how I pressed the arrow keys ....
and now for the LM it is even more difficult to get the correct “point of view”…
so I was wondering is there is a specific screen resolution recommend for CSM and LM in NASSP.

Thank you, I will keep posting here for the rest of this mission...i was not sure if I could do it, as even if pertinent to A11 mission they were related to different aspects of the mission....
PC

 

[rcflyinghokie]

Thanks for the quick answers...I arrived to the "AGS set time" just over +99h after getting the MCC update in the LM ... and I stop here for a while.

Before starting Apollo 11 I downloaded "Orbiter Beta r90", with "D3D9ClientBeta30.7-forBETA r90(r1436)" than on top I loaded the "NASSP-V8.0-Beta-Orbiter2016-1756" revision.

To start I "think" to have used the "Apollo 11 MCC - Launch" and I am keep saving scenarios from time to time to move one day by day, to save I use "Scenario Editor" hitting "save" option and entering the scenario title (I said "think" as to be honest, I was experiencing problems with the automatic checklist execution when starting from the -4h countdown; but after installing and updating everything from scratch I didn't have more issues-; as the problems were related to SM RCS activation and EPO insertion ( from T -20min" ) I am not so sure now if I started my new mission with the real +4h countdown or I just by using the "Apollo 11 - 01 - Before Launch T-20min" scenario (which I supposed to be UPDATED with the newest revision) to don't lost another evening of switch flipping only .... if so I am very sorry for this silly mistake from mine

I send you some scenarios taken at these times for your troubleshooting:

T -5m to Apollo 11 Lift Off -> the scenario I saved just before launching .... all others are coming from this one -> if this is wrong all others will also be wrong.

T +83h 12m when I got the 1st O2 high flow alarm (I was using time acceleration x10 before it was happening)

T +83h 19m when I got the 2nd O2 high flow alarm (starting from the previous scenario, after a while the O2 flow indicator went down and then started again to raise up to give a second alarm, I used time acceleration x10 before I happened)

T +96h 20m by powering up the LM I got the PROG and TEMP alarm … if I go on to do the PGNS activation as instructed by the checklist, the PROG goes away but the TEMP stay on…

T +99h 03m where I am now, just got the SV updates and LS REFSMMAT from MCC and I should do the AGS initialization…TEMP light is still on.



About texture and FOV ….
I saw I was using 90 degree FOV, for some reasons, but more generally (as I am using a laptop with screen ratio 16:9) I always have issues with the correct “screen view” set-up, as if I use the arrow keys the views are always “scrolling” … I was wondering what is the “native” screen resolution to use in NASSP? to have the "scree fixed" so to speak...for sighting outside the windows is really a problem...I had hard time to dock as the COAS was moving around depending on how I pressed the arrow keys ....
and now for the LM it is even more difficult to get the correct “point of view”…
so I was wondering is there is a specific screen resolution recommend for CSM and LM in NASSP.

Thank you, I will keep posting here for the rest of this mission...i was not sure if I could do it, as even if pertinent to A11 mission they were related to different aspects of the mission....
PC

So I think I have a few answers for you here...

Regarding the LGC temperature, you have the IMU heaters off, so the temperature is falling down to the glycol temperature which is of course much cooler. Both IMU STBY and OPR breakers on Panel 11 are open here so the IMU has cooled off enough to trigger the light.

Regarding your O2 flow high, there is still some instability with time acceleration and having the tunnel open. I would recommend leaving the tunnel closed before accelerating to be safe. This is likely the reason behind your flow high alarms.

Also, I see you have some CO2 buildup in the LM, did you use the CSM O2 hose in the LM before activating the LM ECS? (It is in the PAMFD ECS menu in the CSM) While you should be ok, this step is necessary when you are in the LM without it's suit fans running to prevent CO2 buildup.

Regarding your display settings, I personally run 1920x1080 in full screen window with an FOV of 60 and that seems to work well for me.

So your scenario file seems fine and I say you should press on! Feel free to keep asking questions along the way!

 

[thermocalc]

Thanks a lot for the investigations.
don't know why the heaters were off, probably missed steps to rush following the time line as too many new thinks for me to do in the LM for the first time...I will re-do again the LM activation and I will stay more careful, same for closing the tunnel.

about the "CSM O2 hose" ... I saw this new button in the PAMFD, I red about it in a threat but I didn't fully understand when to use it, I supposed it should have been written in some parts of the checklist....if so maybe it was one of the yellow items which i skipped??

Anyhow, are you meaning that when the CDR or LMP or both move from CSM to LM (before activating the LM ECS as you said) - when I decrease the number of crew members from 3 to 1 in the CSM and increment from 0 to 2 in the LM - I also need to "push" the CSM O2 hose in the CSM PAMFD? so that I will have CDR+LMP in the LM as "in cabin" status? if i close the tunnel hatch don't I "cut" the virtual hoses? .... ok, i will try, but then once I activate the LM ECS shall I need to go back to the CSM to "deactivate the HOSES"?
thanks again, happy the problems were "technical" not software related -> AMAZING job you guys did here, I guess if some of you were working for NASA the next Moon landing would not be slipped away again...and again...I guess Artemis will be for my son to look, i lost any hope to can see human on the moon soon by my eyes.....
very late for me now....

 

[rcflyinghokie]

don't know why the heaters were off, probably missed steps to rush following the time line as too many new thinks for me to do in the LM for the first time...I will re-do again the LM activation and I will stay more careful, same for closing the tunnel.

Other than 13, no mission ever pulled the IMU STBY breaker, so somewhere you pulled it by mistake. All the checklist charts should have that breaker in. Push this back in and the light should go off soon after.

about the "CSM O2 hose" ... I saw this new button in the PAMFD, I red about it in a threat but I didn't fully understand when to use it, I supposed it should have been written in some parts of the checklist....if so maybe it was one of the yellow items which i skipped??

That was something we didn't define well in the checklist MFD yet because it is a WIP system. I think it's in the release work thread but with the CSM ECS rework though, it will be clarified for sure.

Anyhow, are you meaning that when the CDR or LMP or both move from CSM to LM (before activating the LM ECS as you said) - when I decrease the number of crew members from 3 to 1 in the CSM and increment from 0 to 2 in the LM - I also need to "push" the CSM O2 hose in the CSM PAMFD? so that I will have CDR+LMP in the LM as "in cabin" status? if i close the tunnel hatch don't I "cut" the virtual hoses? .... ok, i will try, but then once I activate the LM ECS shall I need to go back to the CSM to "deactivate the HOSES"?

So basically if your tunnel is open, the button will work to "connect" the hose. What it does is simulates taking one of the suit hoses and running it down the tunnel into the LM which is what was actually done on the missions you will see it on the IVT checklists.

In your case, whenever you have crew in the LM, and the LM ECS is not running (suit fans are off) then you want to connect that hose. It provides oxygen flow into the LM, raising it's pressure enough to force CO2 up the tunnel and into the CSM LiOH as well as making sure conditioned air is being plumbed into the LM and moving around (as it would not circulate naturally in zero gravity.)

As soon as the LM ECS is powered up, it's safe to disconnect the hose. You want to disconnect before closing the tunnel hatch. It was normally brought back into the CSM on the last IVT before closing the hatch (LMP going back into the CSM briefly.)

 

[thermocalc]

Hi,

I spent some days to read about some LM systems & panels and get some first glimpse over the LGC and AGS (deeper studies will come during the weekend), I just started, and I managed to maintain the tight timeline up to about 99h, when I have set the AGS time at about 99:03:00. After that up to undocking I totally lost control of the events and I am always behind schedule, I tried 3 times, but always with same results, so I am not sure if my interpretation of the checklist from 99h to undocking is correct, please stay with me.

Q1) I got the LS REFSMMAT + CSM/LM SV uplinks in the LGC at about 99h GET, than I move on to set the AGS time (377) Biased (90h) -> photo 1. I got the AGS K Factor+AGS abort constants PAD at 99h 5m and then I was supposed to carry out the blue checklist items for which the PAD values are required going back into the CM to get the P30 Pad for the separation manvr after ORDEAL Initialization … but I got it at 99h 7m while still busy to “perform AGS Initialization” in the LM… how can be possible? So I stop what I was doing in the LM, switch to CM and uplink the PAD, then back to LM and carrying out what I was doing (see photo 2), this bring to the next question.

Q2) if I am doing staff in the LM and I got a MCC uplink message for the CSM can I interrupt what I was doing into the LM, go back to CSM, get the uplink and go back to the LM to finish there? Or doing so I will screw up all logic temporal sequence of the checklist? If I can’t do that than I guess I screw up the temporal sequence and this may well explains all the subsequent problems I had, in particular see Q6.

As a “time check point” for me, if I set the AGS time at about 99h and some minutes am I on the right temporal track or am I already behind schedule?

Q3) inside the CSM at some point there is the action “CMP DON PGA” (photo 3). The first 2 yellow items I guess are not simulated, but what to do next? “suit flow vlv – cabin flow (for unsuited crewman)” -> CDR and LMP are in the LM, attached to the LM ECS, with all hatches closed and sealed, so I can let 302 and 303 vlv in Cabin flow right? EMER CAB PRESS sel – OFF (if all suited) -> CMP is suited and he is alone in the CSM, so it should be OFF? (see photo 3)

Q4) During the “AGS Initialization” it is requested to read out the value of 514R, 515R and 516R wit “PAD Value” in yellow, when I did I got all zeros, and no PAD values for 514-515-516 were uplinked; I guess in future “AGS uplinks” these variables will be there to compare with what the AGS will tell us? So should I not worry at this stage I guess…right?

Q5) during the RNDZ RDR Self test – it is said to verify that the “CSM Radar Xponder” sw is OFF … is the one in photo 4? It was on PRIM before I moved back to OFF. If not, where is it?

Q6) After the “RCS Hot Fire” I should go to CSM, I guess to set the craft to the AGS Calibration attitude which follow next in the LM checklist, but once I go there I see the text: “Maneuver To AGS Calibration attitude” in white and next the item “T +99:43:00” … where are the P-R-Y angles? BUT if I am doing the actions in the LM supposed to start at 99h 32m and I went back to the CSM at 99h 34m 40s after doing the RNDZ RDR self test why the CSM tell me do wait until 99h 43m?? and where is then "usual" yellow ntext telling the angles at which to turn the CSM? I guess I screwed up the temporal sequence of the event .. maybe when I went back to the CSM to get the SEP PAD? (see my 1st and 2nd question, and photo 5 for the sequence).

Q7) during the “undocking” checklist it is said to “EVENT TIMER – SET (Count up to undocking”) -> when is the undocking time? Is it at SEPARATION TIG TIME (got from the P30 Pad) – 25min ? (after all later on I am asked to flip the docking release sw at this time to undock)

Thank you very much.

 

[rcflyinghokie]

Q1) I got the LS REFSMMAT + CSM/LM SV uplinks in the LGC at about 99h GET, than I move on to set the AGS time (377) Biased (90h) -> photo 1. I got the AGS K Factor+AGS abort constants PAD at 99h 5m and then I was supposed to carry out the blue checklist items for which the PAD values are required going back into the CM to get the P30 Pad for the separation manvr after ORDEAL Initialization … but I got it at 99h 7m while still busy to “perform AGS Initialization” in the LM… how can be possible? So I stop what I was doing in the LM, switch to CM and uplink the PAD, then back to LM and carrying out what I was doing (see photo 2), this bring to the next question.

One thing you have to keep in mind is you are juggling checklists normally performed by 3 people in 2 vehicles. So we have done our best to incorporate and facilitate that into the timeline. So while you might get the PAD a little early, just keep pressing on until you get to the Switch to CM message then perform the CSM side.

Q2) if I am doing staff in the LM and I got a MCC uplink message for the CSM can I interrupt what I was doing into the LM, go back to CSM, get the uplink and go back to the LM to finish there? Or doing so I will screw up all logic temporal sequence of the checklist? If I can’t do that than I guess I screw up the temporal sequence and this may well explains all the subsequent problems I had, in particular see Q6.

Just finish what you are doing in the LM and switch to the CM when prompted, this should keep you on time.

As a “time check point” for me, if I set the AGS time at about 99h and some minutes am I on the right temporal track or am I already behind schedule?

AGS time on the flight plan was listed at 99:07, so if you are setting at 99h you are ahead of schedule.

Q3) inside the CSM at some point there is the action “CMP DON PGA” (photo 3). The first 2 yellow items I guess are not simulated, but what to do next? “suit flow vlv – cabin flow (for unsuited crewman)” -> CDR and LMP are in the LM, attached to the LM ECS, with all hatches closed and sealed, so I can let 302 and 303 vlv in Cabin flow right? EMER CAB PRESS sel – OFF (if all suited) -> CMP is suited and he is alone in the CSM, so it should be OFF? (see photo 3)

That is correct, just as listed. The suit flow valves aren't simulated just yet so their position on cabin or suit flow will have no impact to your mission.

Q4) During the “AGS Initialization” it is requested to read out the value of 514R, 515R and 516R wit “PAD Value” in yellow, when I did I got all zeros, and no PAD values for 514-515-516 were uplinked; I guess in future “AGS uplinks” these variables will be there to compare with what the AGS will tell us? So should I not worry at this stage I guess…right?

These values are steering unit vectors (basically where the LM should be oriented during a burn for keeping the SBD antenna pointed the right way) and are pad loaded. This just is a readout to Houston and the LM activation checklist would have these values as well but we do not have Apollo 11's LM activation checklist. Apollo 12's lists them in this spot for comparison but this is just a check.

Q5) during the RNDZ RDR Self test – it is said to verify that the “CSM Radar Xponder” sw is OFF … is the one in photo 4? It was on PRIM before I moved back to OFF. If not, where is it?

Nope that is not the correct switch. You need the CSM Radar XPDR PWR switch on panel 100. The one you flipped is a different transponder, not the rendezvous radar transponder. See the attached image.

Q6) After the “RCS Hot Fire” I should go to CSM, I guess to set the craft to the AGS Calibration attitude which follow next in the LM checklist, but once I go there I see the text: “Maneuver To AGS Calibration attitude” in white and next the item “T +99:43:00” … where are the P-R-Y angles? BUT if I am doing the actions in the LM supposed to start at 99h 32m and I went back to the CSM at 99h 34m 40s after doing the RNDZ RDR self test why the CSM tell me do wait until 99h 43m?? and where is then "usual" yellow ntext telling the angles at which to turn the CSM? I guess I screwed up the temporal sequence of the event .. maybe when I went back to the CSM to get the SEP PAD? (see my 1st and 2nd question, and photo 5 for the sequence).

They are in that block in the V49 maneuver. It has you enter RPY (000,014,014) which is the AGS CAL ATT.

Not sure I am following the rest of the question in this block...

Q7) during the “undocking” checklist it is said to “EVENT TIMER – SET (Count up to undocking”) -> when is the undocking time? Is it at SEPARATION TIG TIME (got from the P30 Pad) – 25min ? (after all later on I am asked to flip the docking release sw at this time to undock)

Yes, undocking time is sep time -25 minutes. So just use that time as did the actual mission.



Also I would encourage using the actual Apollo 11 flight plan and reference the Apollo 12 LM Activation checklist to help clarify these procedures and timelines.

 

[indy91]

One thing I want to add, the updates coming from the MCC aren't done at fixed times. What can happen is that LOI is a bit delayed or early compared to the flight plan. And then every single event that happens in lunar orbit, including the landing, will be delayed/early by the same amount. So the MCC updates are scheduled relative to a revolution to take that into account. Each revolution in lunar orbit starts at crossing 180° longitude. So the e.g. TEI-30 Maneuver PAD comes 60 minutes after rev 10 was started. You might start to notice a pattern that all updates are a bit delayed/early relative to the checklist/flight plan. You should probably adjust your schedule a bit taking that into account. No need to do something exactly on time, if your lunar orbit is delayed by 10 minutes.

 

[thermocalc]

Hi, I have one general question about state vector updates ... somehow related with some answers I got above (Q1 and Q2).
I know it sound silly but I have a "doubt" so sorry in advance.

say at time GET1 I got the uplink with "P30 target load + SV update" and I am going to make the uplink at later time GET2 > GTE1 ... the values of the stave vector at time GET2 will not be any longer valid ? as they were supposed to be valid at time GET1 ? how much could be a "reasonable" time delay (GTE2-GTE1) to can perform a SV update with still "reasonable" outcomes (<30sec, <1min, <5min,...), meaning that burn attitude & TIG time as predicted at time GET1 will still result in a "reasonable" good trajectory after the burn? (elsewhere in the forum I red that any time you get an uplink you should do it immediately, copying the pad values only later on ... so the "doubt").
OR simply put, burn attitude and target load as predicted by MCC are "reasonable independent" of the time the SV will be actually performed? (always considering of course delays not longer than 5-6 min says...)

BUT anyway, suppose I do the uplink at later time GET2 > GET 1 (5-6 min later, as in the case I need to finish some activities), if after that I make another uplink by myself at time GTE3 > GTE2 using PAMFD or RTCC MFD, well before the TIG, I guess that the outcome of the burn will be better isn't it?
thanks for helping me out

 

[indy91]

For the AGC it doesn't matter at all when the SV gets uplinked. When the MCC wants you to do the uplink it has already calculated the state vector (position vector, velocity vector and time when those are valid). That time is usually, but not always, the current time when the calculation was done. But in any case that state vector will be propagated to the time of ignition in P30. And for that it would only be a difference if the SV calculation was done at an other time, the uplink time doesn't matter.

The main reason you shouldn't wait too long is that the MCC might get into trouble. If you wait really long with the uplink, maybe 30+ minutes, there could be cases where the MCC jumps to the next task when the uplink is done (e.g. some PAD), but then the time for the task following that has already come and it would only show that PAD to you for 1 second and jump to the next calculation.

A delayed uplink by 5 minutes should never be an issue. It just means that you should try to catch up with the procedures so that the delay doesn't cause any problems like not being able to do a maneuver on time.

 

[thermocalc]

Hi to all, I managed to land "somehow" thanks to the heavy automation involved but before to proceed need to understand better "why" I managed to land

Q1) At about the time to do P30 for the DOI mnvr the P-Y needles in the FDAI are not centered, who drives them there? Are they representing the RR shaft/trunnion position respectively, as I saw only the P-Y needles were off (just lucky coincidence for the R needle be centered)?
Or in this case, the R-P-Y angles required for the burn? So that when written “check error needles” we should steer the LM to “null them” knowing that at that time we will be at the correct attitude ? See photo 1

Q2) at some point it was requested to “RR Manual Lock-on” … see photo 2.
What should I have to do? Select SLEW RATE-Hi and using the SLEW button up/dw/lt/rt until I see I got a signal in the meter? then switch to AGL the rotary knob?
But how to know in which directions to look for? is there some "hints" to follow (like scan only horizontally or vertically) or should just help myself in “eye balling” the LOS of the CSM from the LM in external view to get an idea where to point the RR antenna? if I do V16 N72 which angles should I read to know the RR antenna is facing +Z direction (forward) - 00000, 00000 ?
Again, when the yellow text says: “Compare LGC, TM, CSM VHF, CMC-Record” what should I do / read from where / check what?

Q3) question related to Q1 and Q2: in the “RR self test” check I saw that the P-Y FDAI needles are showing the RR position of the shaft/trunnion respectively; but before the DOI, when in burn attitude hold, I saw that they were giving the error attitude in R-P-Y from the current position to the LGC calculated position, but how to switch from “error needles” to show RR position vs “error needles” to show “attitude errors”? are the last one available only when the LGC has been loaded with mnvr target loads like during P30? Or is there a way (switches flipping or Verb entry) to decide when and what the error needles are showing us? something like the V62 in the CSM so to speak...

Q4) before the PDI at some point it is written to do “P20 mode II lock-on” … see photo 3; and in yellow “N18 R P Y” … what is the meaning of this? “read” the N18 angles?

Q5) during PDI when it is written to check “OVH<XX”, where “XX” can change during the PDI +time, we should look at the position of the lunar surface horizon through the LM overhead window and it should be approx. below the angle indicated right? But shall we look at the horizon from the OVH of photo 4 (I guess yes) or the enlarged version for docking (photo 5)?

Q6) still during the PDI at some points the following green text appear: LPD ALT check and LPD POS check. I saw they are also written in the “PDI descent time table” at page 9 in the doc “LM timeline book” … does it simply mean that at these times they had to check outside the window where the LPD scale was visible to check outside for lunar surface landmarks / craters “showing up” on time? As when Neil said that having seen known marks arriving at not the correct time he already got the feeling that he was going to land not at the planned spot? Am I correct? If not, what we should do/look/check at these two remarks points?

Q7) I managed to land using P65 till blue contact light and stop then engine but after that the RCS jets started to fire and growing in intensity … I guess I should have flip some sw just after touch done to disable the jets for firing?

Q8) as i screwed up the time sequence again to harry up, I am not sure where I should have got the P76 and CSM rescue pads: i guess P76 inside the LM (P76 is for the LM right?) and the "CSM rescue pads" are for the CSM right?

Still many things to learn from the LM…gorgeous machine …thanks as usual for your kind help/patience.
I guess will "pause" here for a while to re-do the landing from undocking with a better understanding before move on.
PC

 

[rcflyinghokie]

Q1) At about the time to do P30 for the DOI mnvr the P-Y needles in the FDAI are not centered, who drives them there? Are they representing the RR shaft/trunnion position respectively, as I saw only the P-Y needles were off (just lucky coincidence for the R needle be centered)?
Or in this case, the R-P-Y angles required for the burn? So that when written “check error needles” we should steer the LM to “null them” knowing that at that time we will be at the correct attitude ? See photo 1

In this case you are supposed to be checking the AGS error needles not the PGNS. Since you just enabled AGS Z axis steering and put the AGS into auto, you are supposed to verify they are pointing to the CSM.

Q2) at some point it was requested to “RR Manual Lock-on” … see photo 2.
What should I have to do? Select SLEW RATE-Hi and using the SLEW button up/dw/lt/rt until I see I got a signal in the meter? then switch to AGL the rotary knob?
But how to know in which directions to look for? is there some "hints" to follow (like scan only horizontally or vertically) or should just help myself in “eye balling” the LOS of the CSM from the LM in external view to get an idea where to point the RR antenna? if I do V16 N72 which angles should I read to know the RR antenna is facing +Z direction (forward) - 00000, 00000 ?
Again, when the yellow text says: “Compare LGC, TM, CSM VHF, CMC-Record” what should I do / read from where / check what?

In this case you should be facing the CSM still or close to it. So you simply slew until you get the maximum signal strength and get a lock. And yes, N72 at 00000 00000 means your RR is facing forward (+Z).

The compare means you are comparing the range and range rate of the vehicles. What this means is you are comparing your RR values to the LGC, telemetry (ground tracking), the CSM VHF range, and the CMC. Essentially this is a sanity check to make sure the systems are in agreement and to identify any potential errors or malfunctions.

Q3) question related to Q1 and Q2: in the “RR self test” check I saw that the P-Y FDAI needles are showing the RR position of the shaft/trunnion respectively; but before the DOI, when in burn attitude hold, I saw that they were giving the error attitude in R-P-Y from the current position to the LGC calculated position, but how to switch from “error needles” to show RR position vs “error needles” to show “attitude errors”? are the last one available only when the LGC has been loaded with mnvr target loads like during P30? Or is there a way (switches flipping or Verb entry) to decide when and what the error needles are showing us? something like the V62 in the CSM so to speak...

There is a switch right by each FDAI to select the RR or LDG RDR/COMPUTER as the error needle source.

Q4) before the PDI at some point it is written to do “P20 mode II lock-on” … see photo 3; and in yellow “N18 R P Y” … what is the meaning of this? “read” the N18 angles?

No, when you enter P20, you get a F 50 18, this just shows the attitude the LGC would orient you for a mode 1 lock on. You are bypassing it with the enter button but its yellow as a pause so you can make note of it. Since you want a mode 2 lock on, you don't want to move the LM to face the CSM.

Q5) during PDI when it is written to check “OVH<XX”, where “XX” can change during the PDI +time, we should look at the position of the lunar surface horizon through the LM overhead window and it should be approx. below the angle indicated right? But shall we look at the horizon from the OVH of photo 4 (I guess yes) or the enlarged version for docking (photo 5)?

Yes those are OHW angles to verify pitch and position with the horizon. As far as I can recall, those angles don't line up perfectly with our OHW positioning currently.

Q6) still during the PDI at some points the following green text appear: LPD ALT check and LPD POS check. I saw they are also written in the “PDI descent time table” at page 9 in the doc “LM timeline book” … does it simply mean that at these times they had to check outside the window where the LPD scale was visible to check outside for lunar surface landmarks / craters “showing up” on time? As when Neil said that having seen known marks arriving at not the correct time he already got the feeling that he was going to land not at the planned spot? Am I correct? If not, what we should do/look/check at these two remarks points?

Exactly, that's just checks with the charts and landmarks based on PDI time. And also how they realized they were going to land long.

Q7) I managed to land using P65 till blue contact light and stop then engine but after that the RCS jets started to fire and growing in intensity … I guess I should have flip some sw just after touch done to disable the jets for firing?

So what was done here is the ACA was moved out of detent. This sets a new "zero" point for the attitude hold and would effectively stop RCS firing. If you are using a keyboard for RCS, you cannot do this since it reads those inputs as "hardover" commands.

The best solution here (NASSP workaround, if you will) is to simply turn the mode control PGNS switch to off.

EDIT: Looks like Orbiter's command of CTRL+NUMPAD actually will work in lieu of this acting like a deflection out of detent without hardover. See if that works for you. If not, MODE CONT - OFF will work for sure.

Q8) as i screwed up the time sequence again to harry up, I am not sure where I should have got the P76 and CSM rescue pads: i guess P76 inside the LM (P76 is for the LM right?) and the "CSM rescue pads" are for the CSM right?

P76 is a program in both the CMC and LGC. This P76 update you are referring to is used in the CSM for the LM DOI burn to update the LM state vector in the CSM after the LM DOI and to allow tracking to resume.

 

[thermocalc]

Hi,

I did some readings and testing about LM systems and computers (LGC, AGS) ... I am reading the LM AOH system and operational manuals for the time being :..
.but I am still far away from a deep understanding to allow me go back to retry the mission after LM undocking to landing in proper way, I am trying to "decode" the meaning of the navigational items/steps which appears in the checklist ... some clouds are disappearing bit others are still there .... here are some doubts that I still have and I could not figure out by myself yet, so sorry if I ask for your help again

q1) When I do the “AGS initialization” with V47E and 414+1 , which is recurring several times in the checklist, basically I am downloading from the PGNS to the AGS the present LM state vector right? This would explain why it is done many times.

q2) But if it is so, what about the CSM SV? The LGC has knowledge of the CSM SV as well, so during V47 is it downlink to the AGS also this?

q3) If I want to upload by myself a new fresh SV for the LM, I can use PAMFD SV update (as in the CSM) right? But can I upload also to the LGC the CSM SV? Or in this case do I need to use the RTCC MFD in which I can select in which “slot” load the SV? so doing the upload twice, once for the CSM and once for the LM slot?

q4) I did some tests activating the RR and using P20 before the DOI burn .... I followed the steps for P20 and I saw that it was automatically scanning for the the signal .... eventually I got the signals (meters >2) and the "Trak lt off" .... (I was in LGC mode); next I tried to go to SLEW mode and move around the RR antenna to check for a good lock on the main lob … I was at signal strength >2, indeed moving around I saw that I got another peak at around 1 … so I guess that was one of the side lobe, so back to >2 and with “auto trek” I got “RR lock on” again with trak lt OFF, the autotrcaking was working;
Than I switched to LGC and press PRO and many timed I got 525 PROG alarm … I saw that it means a deviation >3 degree from SV and LOS … (SV of who? CSM right?) …. Anyway out of desperation I tried to upload a new SV (of who? LM? as I was in the LM i guess?) using PAMFD and retried the same procedure and this time I got a lock on the main lobe selecting LGC and with the RR P-Y needles around centered 0-0 by using some RCS jests … is correct what I did this time? otherwise, why should I get a 525 alarm?
Is it normal that if I got a signal autotrack mode is always working but LGC mode may or may not working? and to make it work do i always neeed to be in P20?


Next I tried to understand some DEDA addresses … and controls…but I have some issues here.

q5) For example, I understood that if I put the Guidance swt to AGS and P-R-Y to Mode control, with Mode Control AGS – AUTO, and I enter into DEDA 400+2 and 507+0 the LM should orient itself to have the +Z axis “facing” the CSM …. am I right here or not?
But when I was doing the RR tracking exercise with P20 running and the RR locked on to the CSM with both P-Y RR error needles to 0-0 and Track lt off, (with Guide sw in PGNS and P-R-Y sw in MODE CONTROL, and PGNS MODE CONTROL to AUTO) I was already tracking the CSM, I just tried to give control from PGNS to AGS (entering 400+2 and 507+2) but the LM started to spin around ending up in a direction which was not directed to the CSM, indeed even going to slew mode I could not reacquire the RR signal any longer … so my previous question about “when” the SV get updated into the AGS … maybe I thought that at time I did the exercise the CSM SV inside the AGS was not correct? I was thinking to upload a new CSM SV into AGS (letting it knows where the CSM is, according MCC) and so try again Z-axis steering …but I realize I still didn't understand "where" the SVs into the AGS are entered....

q6) about DEDA time .... don't understood how to read the Time from Perigee (TPER) from AGS address 313 ... here are the example I used:
with AGS time set with 90h bias at GET 100:24:20.34 (by V16 N65) I got 377R +06243 so 624.3 min which corresponds to about 10h 24m 18s which added to 90h gives me 100h 24m 18s which is "roughly" the GET time -> why is it not PRECISE? should I have done V47 before to check the time to "update" the AGS? (sorry I didn't try to do it before posting this here).
But if I look at V82E and N32 I got in R3 a time from perigee of -21m 47.20s and if I check on DEDA address 313R i got +03438 which is far of from roughly 21-22min (but it was counting down) .... how to interpret this time? why is it around 343.8/60=5.7 hous??? doesn't look like a time from perigee .... (from the other sides, HA and HP from V82 were more or less equals to the corresponding AGS addresses.

q7) Last questions, about P76 in the CSM … so with P76 I tell the CSM CMC that the LM has done a burn and in this manner he can calculate the new LM SV by itself, so I guess that P76 should be run inside the CSM AFTER the LM has done the actual burn right?
will the same technique also applies for all others LM burns to do a rendezvous? Like if the LM will do a CSI or CDH or TPI burn there will be also a “mirror burn” to be uploaded into the CSM via P76? (obviously I never ventured to any rendezvous…)

As said, I am sorry to bother you with questions which maybe are found at page 333 or 567 or 768 or 1234 of some manuals I am still reading….but your answers will help me to put me on a better track during my readings....

Thanks a lot for your kind help.

 

[rcflyinghokie]

q1) When I do the “AGS initialization” with V47E and 414+1 , which is recurring several times in the checklist, basically I am downloading from the PGNS to the AGS the present LM state vector right? This would explain why it is done many times.

This is correct, you are essentially downlinking this information from the PGNS to the AGS.

q2) But if it is so, what about the CSM SV? The LGC has knowledge of the CSM SV as well, so during V47 is it downlink to the AGS also this?

CSM SV is included in this. The AGS knows where both vehicles are.

q3) If I want to upload by myself a new fresh SV for the LM, I can use PAMFD SV update (as in the CSM) right? But can I upload also to the LGC the CSM SV? Or in this case do I need to use the RTCC MFD in which I can select in which “slot” load the SV? so doing the upload twice, once for the CSM and once for the LM slot?

Honestly I would just use the RTCC for all uplinks. You can uplink to either vehicle in there just be sure you choose the correct computer and correct slot from the menu.

q4) I did some tests activating the RR and using P20 before the DOI burn .... I followed the steps for P20 and I saw that it was automatically scanning for the the signal .... eventually I got the signals (meters >2) and the "Trak lt off" .... (I was in LGC mode); next I tried to go to SLEW mode and move around the RR antenna to check for a good lock on the main lob … I was at signal strength >2, indeed moving around I saw that I got another peak at around 1 … so I guess that was one of the side lobe, so back to >2 and with “auto trek” I got “RR lock on” again with trak lt OFF, the autotrcaking was working;
Than I switched to LGC and press PRO and many timed I got 525 PROG alarm … I saw that it means a deviation >3 degree from SV and LOS … (SV of who? CSM right?) …. Anyway out of desperation I tried to upload a new SV (of who? LM? as I was in the LM i guess?) using PAMFD and retried the same procedure and this time I got a lock on the main lobe selecting LGC and with the RR P-Y needles around centered 0-0 by using some RCS jests … is correct what I did this time? otherwise, why should I get a 525 alarm?
Is it normal that if I got a signal autotrack mode is always working but LGC mode may or may not working? and to make it work do i always neeed to be in P20?

P20 is using the CSM SV as a fixed reference and comparing the LM's SV to the range/range rate to update the LM SV. This 525 you got tells me you either had a bad LM SV (or just off) meaning you imparted some velocity without avg G running or you were locked onto a side lobe.

q5) For example, I understood that if I put the Guidance swt to AGS and P-R-Y to Mode control, with Mode Control AGS – AUTO, and I enter into DEDA 400+2 and 507+0 the LM should orient itself to have the +Z axis “facing” the CSM …. am I right here or not?
But when I was doing the RR tracking exercise with P20 running and the RR locked on to the CSM with both P-Y RR error needles to 0-0 and Track lt off, (with Guide sw in PGNS and P-R-Y sw in MODE CONTROL, and PGNS MODE CONTROL to AUTO) I was already tracking the CSM, I just tried to give control from PGNS to AGS (entering 400+2 and 507+2) but the LM started to spin around ending up in a direction which was not directed to the CSM, indeed even going to slew mode I could not reacquire the RR signal any longer … so my previous question about “when” the SV get updated into the AGS … maybe I thought that at time I did the exercise the CSM SV inside the AGS was not correct? I was thinking to upload a new CSM SV into AGS (letting it knows where the CSM is, according MCC) and so try again Z-axis steering …but I realize I still didn't understand "where" the SVs into the AGS are entered....

For your AGS 400+2 and 507+0 yes, AGS AUTO should orient yourself facing the CSM, assuming your state vectors (and REFSMMAT) are good. Sounds like you have either a bad REFSMMAT or SV in the LGC here.

q6) about DEDA time .... don't understood how to read the Time from Perigee (TPER) from AGS address 313 ... here are the example I used:
with AGS time set with 90h bias at GET 100:24:20.34 (by V16 N65) I got 377R +06243 so 624.3 min which corresponds to about 10h 24m 18s which added to 90h gives me 100h 24m 18s which is "roughly" the GET time -> why is it not PRECISE? should I have done V47 before to check the time to "update" the AGS? (sorry I didn't try to do it before posting this here).
But if I look at V82E and N32 I got in R3 a time from perigee of -21m 47.20s and if I check on DEDA address 313R i got +03438 which is far of from roughly 21-22min (but it was counting down) .... how to interpret this time? why is it around 343.8/60=5.7 hous??? doesn't look like a time from perigee .... (from the other sides, HA and HP from V82 were more or less equals to the corresponding AGS addresses.

For the AGS time, human error comes into play here because of timing the ENTER press and because you are in decimal minutes. You should be able to get within a second or two but this is where the "K Factor" comes in. Your AGS time might still be slightly off but the K factor is read up the the crew (its a delta between the PGNS and AGS times) and that time is used in V47 so the downlink compensates for the differences. The precision of the AGS time is purely how well you can time the ENTER press.

Your Tperg is not 0.1 minutes but rather 0.01 minutes. So that would be 34.38 minutes not 343.8 minutes.

While you are digesting the AGS, it might behoove you to enjoy the FP6 Operating Manual

q7) Last questions, about P76 in the CSM … so with P76 I tell the CSM CMC that the LM has done a burn and in this manner he can calculate the new LM SV by itself, so I guess that P76 should be run inside the CSM AFTER the LM has done the actual burn right?
will the same technique also applies for all others LM burns to do a rendezvous? Like if the LM will do a CSI or CDH or TPI burn there will be also a “mirror burn” to be uploaded into the CSM via P76? (obviously I never ventured to any rendezvous…)

So P76 basically updates the state vector based on the input burn parameters. So essentially the CSM knows where the LM was before the burn, and then you tell the CMC what the LM burned (TIG and dV) and it simply integrates that burn into the LM SV. So this is typically done after the burn taking into account residuals as well.

This also applies during rendezvous, the LM preps the burn, the CSM computes a mirror burn to get ready to burn one minute later. If the LM burns successfully, the CSM just updates the LM SV with a a P76 and resumes marking to keep a good current SV.

As said, I am sorry to bother you with questions which maybe are found at page 333 or 567 or 768 or 1234 of some manuals I am still reading….but your answers will help me to put me on a better track during my readings....

Not a bother at all! This is how you learn! Please, keep them coming.

 

[thermocalc]

HI,

I did some further readings and test with the LM attitude modes, I am using the keyboard … from the LM AOH I saw this summary CES table 1 and 2 , and I tried to disable the hardover sw to get rid of the “default” hardover effect implicit by using the keybord, as well as “simulating” manual control by enabling the hardover function;
please see the summary "LM Attiude test done" in the file, for what if found and some open questions.

RTE CMD = rate command -> pushing the numpad keys (1,2,3,4,6,8) the attitude rate °/s keep increasing as long as the key is pressed, once released the attitude rate goes to zero and LM rotation stop.

PULSE = a short pulse is fired any time the key is pressed, keeping pressed the key does not keep increasing the attitude rate; after releasing the key the rotation doesn’t stop.

ACC CMD = accelerate command -> pushing the numpad keys (1,2,3,4,6,8) the attitude rate °/s keep increasing as long as the key is pressed, once released the attitude rate is maintained to the value which was reached and LM rotation continues.

I would like to know if the movements I got are correct and are the ones, which should be expected, so to move on with the missions with more confidence.

I am concern (doubts) about the following.

1. “generally” only moving the “hardover” switch on the left, CDR side, to DISABLE it seems to give the RTE CMD (with V77) and PULSE (with V76) modes, and this is independent on the position of the setting of the hardover sw on the right, LMP side … is it normal?
2. if yes, this mean that the keyboard numpad keys mimics only the CDR ACA and TTCA? -> this would explain me why when doing the “Throttle gimbal test” I saw that putting the THR CONT sw to MAN and the MAN THROT sw to CDR pressing the “0”, “.” Numpad keys I indeed got the CMD THRUST indicator moving up/down, but when asked to flip MAN THROT sw to SE (for the LMP TTCA) I observed none movement in CMD thurst (so I supposed the LMP TTCA was not “simulated”, only the CDR one) … and now this would explain why here also only the LMP ACA seems “inactive” to influence the “numpad” keys pressures…is it indeed so?
3. with mode AUTO – PGNS the ACA manual inputs (as far as not reaching the hardover position) should not do anything (so I understood), indeed it seems that I always got RTE CMD if the hardover is enabled but no movements for R-P without hardover, but why in Yaw I got still RTE CMD even with hardover disabled?
4. With mode ATT HOLD – PGNS is it normal to get ACC CMD entering V76 with hardover enabled?
5. With mode PULSE – AGS is it normal to get ACC CMD with hardover enabled?
6. Last comments: if GUID CONT is on PGNS -> the position of the AGS:MODE CONT sw is irrelevant right? (I always put to OFF if the PGNS is in control, as the AGS should be just in “follow up mode” right? just “observing” but doing nothing, not interfering…)
7. So it means also that if the GUID CONT is on AGS -> the position of the PGNS:MODE CONT sw is irrelevant, as the AGS is command, right? (again here I out to OFF to make sure I got none interference, but I guess it was necessary….right?)
8. About AUTO-AGS … I saw only that once entered into this mode the LM want to move in some orientation, if I move the ACA to go to another orientation, beside engaging always in RTE CMD , once release the keys the LM “swing back” to another orientation…so I guess this is related to the fact of the “guidance stirring” and “Z-body steering” … so first to ask more I will go on reading the FP6 manuals about these modes … eheheh

Thanks for your help in understanding all this staff.

Kind regards.

 

[indy91]

HI,

I did some further readings and test with the LM attitude modes, I am using the keyboard … from the LM AOH I saw this summary CES table 1 and 2 , and I tried to disable the hardover sw to get rid of the “default” hardover effect implicit by using the keybord, as well as “simulating” manual control by enabling the hardover function;
please see the summary "LM Attiude test done" in the file, for what if found and some open questions.

RTE CMD = rate command -> pushing the numpad keys (1,2,3,4,6,8) the attitude rate °/s keep increasing as long as the key is pressed, once released the attitude rate goes to zero and LM rotation stop.

PULSE = a short pulse is fired any time the key is pressed, keeping pressed the key does not keep increasing the attitude rate; after releasing the key the rotation doesn’t stop.

ACC CMD = accelerate command -> pushing the numpad keys (1,2,3,4,6,8) the attitude rate °/s keep increasing as long as the key is pressed, once released the attitude rate is maintained to the value which was reached and LM rotation continues.

I would like to know if the movements I got are correct and are the ones, which should be expected, so to move on with the missions with more confidence.

That is essentially correct, although you are mixing CSM and LM terminology a bit there. Rate Cmd and Accel Cmd are from the CSM. Direct mode in the LM is the same as Accel Cmd in the CSM, Pulse mode is the same as Min Imp in the CSM. Mode Control is a bit more complicated than Rate Cmd as the AGS has a computer, where the SCS in the CSM doesn't.

I am concern (doubts) about the following.

1. “generally” only moving the “hardover” switch on the left, CDR side, to DISABLE it seems to give the RTE CMD (with V77) and PULSE (with V76) modes, and this is independent on the position of the setting of the hardover sw on the right, LMP side … is it normal?
2. if yes, this mean that the keyboard numpad keys mimics only the CDR ACA and TTCA? -> this would explain me why when doing the “Throttle gimbal test” I saw that putting the THR CONT sw to MAN and the MAN THROT sw to CDR pressing the “0”, “.” Numpad keys I indeed got the CMD THRUST indicator moving up/down, but when asked to flip MAN THROT sw to SE (for the LMP TTCA) I observed none movement in CMD thurst (so I supposed the LMP TTCA was not “simulated”, only the CDR one) … and now this would explain why here also only the LMP ACA seems “inactive” to influence the “numpad” keys pressures…is it indeed so?

That is correct. The ACA and TTCA that you use in the LM are always the ones of the CDR and not the LMP in NASSP. So the switches for the LMP joysticks have no effect. I guess in theory we could implemented support for 2x ACA and 2x TTCA, but not many people would be able to have such a joystick configuration.

1. with mode AUTO – PGNS the ACA manual inputs (as far as not reaching the hardover position) should not do anything (so I understood), indeed it seems that I always got RTE CMD if the hardover is enabled but no movements for R-P without hardover, but why in Yaw I got still RTE CMD even with hardover disabled?

Yeah the yaw axis under PGNS control has something called x-axis override. In general that will allow you to freely maneuver in yaw when under PGNS Auto. The LGC software can disable this capability. Here the paragraph about it in the GSOP section 3:

With mode ATT HOLD – PGNS is it normal to get ACC CMD entering V76 with hardover enabled?

Hardover is always using "ACC CMD" as you call it. It fires the RCS thrusters even if the PGNS doesn't want it. The PGNS isn't involved in that process.

With mode PULSE – AGS is it normal to get ACC CMD with hardover enabled?

Same as with the PGNS. Hardover controls are separate from PGNS/AGS and it always keeps firing the RCS thrusters as long as you have the joystick at full deflection (so always with the keyboard if hardover mode is enabled).

Last comments: if GUID CONT is on PGNS -> the position of the AGS:MODE CONT sw is irrelevant right? (I always put to OFF if the PGNS is in control, as the AGS should be just in “follow up mode” right? just “observing” but doing nothing, not interfering…)

Yeah, the switch has no function then, at least it doesn't fire the RCS or anything. But it's good practice to keep the system (PGNS or AGS) that is currently not in control in the correct configuration to take over if you switch to it with the Guid Cont switch.

So it means also that if the GUID CONT is on AGS -> the position of the PGNS:MODE CONT sw is irrelevant, as the AGS is command, right? (again here I out to OFF to make sure I got none interference, but I guess it was necessary….right?)

See above.

About AUTO-AGS … I saw only that once entered into this mode the LM want to move in some orientation, if I move the ACA to go to another orientation, beside engaging always in RTE CMD , once release the keys the LM “swing back” to another orientation…so I guess this is related to the fact of the “guidance stirring” and “Z-body steering” … so first to ask more I will go on reading the FP6 manuals about these modes … eheheh

Yeah, with hardover you can overpower the RCS commands from the PGNS or AGS. Are you release the ACA then the AGS in Auto mode will usually get the LM back to the attitude that it wanted before, so it will do an attitude maneuver and not hold the new attitude. But it depends how the AGS is currently configured.

 

[thermocalc]

starting to practice P52 and P57 in LM ... is there a hidden "click spot" on the AOT screens (the one with the CCRD+MARK buttons OR the up view where you indeed see the stars/crosshair/spiral) to show the DSKY as in the LEB in the CSM while in SXT view? or this time all marks must be entered via keyboard entries?
thanks

 

[rcflyinghokie]

starting to practice P52 and P57 in LM ... is there a hidden "click spot" on the AOT screens (the one with the CCRD+MARK buttons OR the up view where you indeed see the stars/crosshair/spiral) to show the DSKY as in the LEB in the CSM while in SXT view? or this time all marks must be entered via keyboard entries?
thanks

Right now I don't believe there is. I would use the keyboard commands to mark since you need to use the keyboard to move the AOT spiral anyways.