Updates Artemis Program Updates & Discussions

Kyle

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Just in case you thought President Trump was serious about the space program, he is not:

[ame="https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1137051097955102720"]Donald J. Trump on Twitter: "For all of the money we are spending, NASA should NOT be talking about going to the Moon - We did that 50 years ago. They should be focused on the much bigger things we are doing, including Mars (of which the Moon is a part), Defense and Science!"[/ame]
 

Urwumpe

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Of course defense. MARS ATTACKS!

Seriously: Trump is our Zephod Beeblebrox, isn't he?
 

barrygolden

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I don't don't think this will ever fly. As slow as NASA is no way they can pull this off. Gateway if it was too ever fly was a way to Keep NASA's manned program alive. But 4 or more missions to build this will never work. The Apollo guys knew that cost was important so the Saturn five made sense. NASA did show a 1 launch inflatable Gateway that made sense if this is the way to go. A moon base makes more sense and I think a direct lander is the way to go along the lines of the "Last Lunar Outpost" from the 90's. Reusable landers would be great but what cost to get fuel and refurbish them.
Trump will be re-elected but like " Freedom " we'll see NASA spend billions of dollars then those guys will retire and draw pensions and this program will never leave the ground. I doubt SLS will ever fly. Why would they. A Moon base should be next but are we willing to fund it with our ISS partners and are we willing to take the risk and see people die up there on the Moon.
 

Soumya-8974

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Re: Artemis program

I was dreaming that SLS exploded on the Pad 39B, the US President canceled the Artemis program and focused on SpaceX Starship/Super Heavy (BFR). This is like the Douglas DC-XA exploded and NASA focused on the VentureStar (which was canceled in 2001, in spite of being really close to fly).
 
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Urwumpe

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I was dreaming that SLS exploded on the Pad 39B, the US President canceled the Artemis program and focused on SpaceX Starship/Super Heavy (BFR). This is like the Douglas DC-XA exploded and NASA focused on the VentureStar (which was canceled in 2001, in spite of being really close to fly).

The Venture Star was far from flying actually. The complex shaped hydrogen tank failed during tests, which was a show-stopper.

The only pretty successful component was the linear aerospike engine.

Also, avionics had been rather coarsely defined at the point of cancellation. Almost as if NASA expected it to be cancelled soon and focussed on getting as much as possible basic research from the program.

Maybe it would work better using Methane instead of the more demanding hydrogen.
 

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Re: Artemis program

Cheers to Methane (CH4)! Now, back on topic!
 
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Urwumpe

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It would work better it they used less politics :lol:


Well, I hope I don't sound too cynical there, but whenever three humans interact, politics are created in the center of this triangle. And you can triangulate any group up to the whole humanity....



And thus also have politics between groups by substituting subgraphs by simple vertices. And like graphs, politics can thus be circular...


And if nobody quickly stops me now, I'll create a powerpoint presentation explaining EU politics with graph theory and apply the Erdos-Faber-Lovasz conjecture on the last election results.
 

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The saga of the X 33 is an example of a Failed NASA. Yes Urwumpe your right, lots of issues with the odd shape and composite tanks. But Lockheed built some aluminum tanks and found they were lighter than the composite tanks and then they solved the composite tanks by filling the honeycomb structure. The word I got was that the X 33 was 90% complete but a NASA big wig said that it wouldn't be advanced enough so they canceled the funding. Lockheed was ok with that because they didn't have the funding to finance the Venture Star.
I thought the X33 with a Space hab module launched on a Delta 4 would have made a great ISS resupply craft. I shared that with my co workers here at Space X and really raised some eye brows and some looks at it. They looked at it as an upper stage with the Sats carried in the payload bay which with the smaller fuel tanks would be a bigger bay and totally reusable.
I do have a Venture Star addon in orbiter thanks to gattis and have been flying different missions and really have enjoyed it.
Seeing men and women walk on the moon before I pass would be great but don't think it will happen . Landing on the Moon in 5 years ? I don't think the SLS will fly in 5 years if ever. Maybe an inflatable gateway with a modified X33 might be cool to see. It could carry fuel to refill a reusable lander docked to Gateway might work
 

Urwumpe

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Well, you know: The final 10% of work take 90% of the time.
 

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As you can tell I was a big fan of the X 33 and venture Star. No way was NASA going to have astronauts ride inside a hydrogen bomb but SSTO is the Holy Grail to solve the most expensive 100 miles. I like Jim Bridenstine but I see a song and dance routine. What I would like to see is the same charts that Sally Ride explained in her report to the Augustine commission and showed Constellation was a " Dead Man Walking" . I have ask my Congressman Kevin Brady to show us those but I was told " Stay calm All is Well" ( see Animal House movie)
Look no further than "Freedom" 8 years and 10 billion sent and all we got were paint samples and computer generated images. $ 10 billion !! All those guy draw NASA pensions and live on Fisher Island
 
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Urwumpe

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As you can tell I was a big fan of the X 33 and venture Star. No way was NASA going to have astronauts ride inside a hydrogen bomb but SSTO is the Holy Grail to solve the most expensive 100 miles.

Sure SSTO is it psychologically. It is the dream of flying to space like flying from New York to Denver. But I think this is lacking imagination.

During the early days of flight, people compared flying from Paris to New York to passenger ships, because they had no idea how travel in an aircraft would eventually be like. (Just imagine telling them in 1912 about the future Concorde. )

We still like to compare a well-running, boring, efficient spaceflight to aircraft, but I am not sure if this is really the best goal.

For example I think TSTOs are way more capable as long as we are talking about rockets. If you can build a barely working SSTO, a TSTO could fly loops around it while still hauling more into orbit. (That TSTO is what SpaceX currently plans with their BFR.)

But what if somebody manages to build a space elevator? Or something completely new regarding engines? Then TSTO would be likely an obsolete concept and a SSTO would look different to what we imagine today.
 
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The aim to do what is proposed end of, may be make some money on the side if it lasts, this is exploration. If no station around the Moon, how does learning to live in orbit of a moon not advance human understanding?

The idea of an actual outpost on the Moon is nonsense. I mean may be anywhere, like how they did the Taurus littrow valley, landing on the darker locations isn't much fun.
 
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The problem with the US congress it is full of benefactors, the long term goal of space fight will never happen with the chamber only looking for funds, I was sure that doing one or two mission with Astronauts is the only way by government, otherwise it will be the wealthiest companies that will may be try and do this alone, but even they will need money to keep it going, unless it is just done for knowledge, like out of star trek.
 

RGClark

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The problem with the US congress it is full of benefactors, the long term goal of space fight will never happen with the chamber only looking for funds, I was sure that doing one or two mission with Astronauts is the only way by government, otherwise it will be the wealthiest companies that will may be try and do this alone, but even they will need money to keep it going, unless it is just done for knowledge, like out of star trek.

Elon Musk says SpaceX’s Starship can land on the moon by 2021.
By Trevor Mogg — Posted on July 18, 2019 10:45PM PST
https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/spacex-elon-musk-says-starship-can-land-on-the-moon-by-2021/

Bob Clark
 

MaverickSawyer

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Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.
 

Urwumpe

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Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.

At least, he could have the money for this plan. NASA depends on Congress, which is mostly filled with people who had to become congressmen for not causing too much harm in a real business.

SpaceX can take money from any investor willed to give it to them. They just have to pay it back, eventually, but SpaceX has way more freedom there.
 

Soumya-8974

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Re: Artemis program

Y'know, at this point, I believe him. He certainly will beat NASA to BLEO.

SpaceX is nothing without NASA. Even though Artemis 1 will delay, the construction of the Gateway will never delay with Falcon Heavy.
 
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