Delta Glider - How could it be built for real?

[communist]

hello all if you havent heard, Flightline Aerospace is currently organsing anyone who wants to be a part of the greatest project EVER,
bulding the deltaglider within 35 years
we hope to be sucessful
i wish to have martins approval

*Staff note* Please use this thread to constructively discuss the construction of a real delta glider, what are the latest breakthroughs and possiblilties that could make this work.

 

[Woo482]

What kind of engines and fuel are you planing on using?

 

[Mojave]

don't you get it, We don't know what fuel yet.

 

[Woo482]

But you plan on building a spacecraft with insane ISP and thrust?, I'd have thought you would have at least a basic idea

 

[Urwumpe]

The fuel of the Orbiter DG has always been fairy dust, I hope you remember it in 35 years.

 

[Mojave]

This project needs a little something, We may not need an insane fuel amount. We could always launch sorta like the space shuttle. With LRBs instead of SRBs.

 

[Skookum]

Perhaps if the fuselage was made from an aerogel core bonded with carbon nanotube film, you might get a structure light enough to make LH2 or other high ISP fuels viable for SSTO. However, not being an engineer, I am of course talking out of my a**.

:thumbup:

 

[communist]

Perhaps if the fuselage was made from an aerogel core bonded with carbon nanotube film, you might get a structure light enough to make LH2 or other high ISP fuels viable for SSTO. However, not being an engineer, I am of course talking out of my a**.

:thumbup:

nice idea

 

[Mojave]

Than fuel costs would be lower.

I just thought of something. The DG is it really flyable, I mean is it really aerodynamic? Can it sustain a nice flide slope?

 

[Shadow Addict]

I think this idea is super great! I have a few suggestions though, I hope you don't mind!

Okay so what if instead of 2 engines we used like 30. That way we could take out ones we don't need so it'll be lighter for atmospheric flight testing! Great right? Also it should be built for a water landing; that way we wouldn't need to worry about putting in stupid landing gear (note: figure out how to keep water out of engines). Oh and as far as the engines go I think we could take the SSMEs (NASA could probably give them to us pretty cheap, they're not gonna need them in a few years ANYway) and just make them smaller (not TOO much smaller, just like 10 or 20 times smaller so we can put a bunch of them together). Also I think it could have a bunch of reusable SRBs clustered around it, except (here's the brilliant part) when they're depleted of solid fuel they start to work as jet engines to accelerate EVEN FASTER! And and also the cockpit is detachable but has its own engines so the pilot can detach from the main ship body and use the onboard RCS to perform satellite repair and stuff like that. Also hey we probably need a runway for this thing! We could just use my street, it's smooth (except for the bumpy part!) and mostly straight. Oh oh oh what if the retros doubled as LASERS so we could shoot down any space debris? That guy TCR had a BUNCH of great ideas for space weapons, we could use some of those (I will NEVER figure out why he got banned, he was really a visionary). And what about an autopilot? We could give it this totally KICKASS autopilot that would like go to orbit and change planes and stuff all by itself, the pilot would barely have to do anything! Unless I mean he wanted to, then he could turn off the autopilot (it'd have an off button so it couldn't be mean like HAL from that movie) and just fly it himself! I think that'd be totally kickin rad.

 

[Coolhand]

Ok, some of you may be wondering where your posts have gone. I have removed many of them because in the opinion of the staff they are not suitable for Orbiter Forum.

The reasons vary from too many, too short posts, to outright trolling and the feeding of those trolls. I shall mention no names but i imagine you know who you are.

Whether any official punishments are issued is still a matter of debate.

Lets set the agenda here and move forward, i don't want to see anyones ideas stomped on because they are percieved to be unrealistic, if you want to offer critique, ensure it is productive, constructive advice, mocking or scorning will not be tolerated.

Just because we can't do something today, it does not mean that it can't be done in 35 years, or a hundred or a thousand, assuming we make it... With some of the attitudes expressed here i have my doubts, mankind can be altogether too cynical at times.

This thread may seem too fanciful for many members tastes, as there are no apparent solutions to some aspects of the delta glider design. But nevertheless a real delta glider would be an incredibly useful vessel and i would hope this thread sparks more meaningful discussion and inspiration in those reading & participating.

If you dont like the thread or think its stupid, don't post in here.

To those who do choose to post in here, keep it constructive, and cut out the one or two word posts that basically just agree with someone else, if you have nothing useful to add leave it alone otherwise you're just bumping up the thread at the expense of other threads and its unfair to other members who have threads in here.

 

[Moach]

actually, my G42 StarLiner project came up out of the idea of how to build a "possible" delta-glider...

i then started adapting it's design (fairly larger, more streamlined...) so it could not only fly better, but actually lift stuff - the DG doesn't have a cargo bay


in order to achieve SSTO performance, i devised a complex air-breathing engine assembly, called the RAMCASTER, and it's worth noting that it's fuel would be something more "compact" than LH2, as to allow a mach-friendly cross section...


then there's the heat problem... the DG windshield is hazardously opposing the airstream... so i developed a visor rig to keep it from exploding under hypersonic abuse.... now, the hull itself would have to be made out of carbon nanostructures... or it would be too heavy if it were to endure said abusive flight envelope:shifty:


now... it ISN'T really the DG... the G42 comes short of it in most performance-related aspects (except lift maybe) - so you won't make it to the moon in it... and even if you did, landing would be challenging, to say the least, without any hover engines :rofl:

but it could be used to assemble and supply a trans-lunar stack in orbit over a series of flights, which makes more sense, i believe

 

[fireballs619]

Well, I guess my last post was quite trollish thinking back on it. Embarrising actually, so let me try again.

The delta gliders design has so many flaws and requires so many innovations to be functional, that one would have to make core changes to the design. At that point, its not even a delta glider anymore. A must better venture is to make a spaceplane. Don't try to make a Delta Glider, but certainly use elements of the Delta Glider in the design.

 

[garyw]

in order to achieve SSTO performance, i devised a complex air-breathing engine assembly, called the RAMCASTER, and it's worth noting that it's fuel would be something more "compact" than LH2, as to allow a mach-friendly cross section...

I like the idea of a [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse_detonation_engine"]pulse detonation engine[/ame]/ramjet set up where you take off using the PDE, perform the initial climb out and acceleration then at Mach 4, switch over to the Ramjet and climb for space.

Heat shouldn't be too much of an issue as you'll pull up to near vertical shortly after take off, climb, level, accelerate, then gently climb.

As far as fuels go... well, there needs to be something that as a lot more energy per gallon than current liquid fuels.

The only way I can see a delta-glider being built for 'real' is to have a wood mock up in the back garden.

communist - How serious are you about doing this for real?

 

[Moach]

I like the idea of a pulse detonation engine/ramjet set up where you take off using the PDE, perform the initial climb out and acceleration then at Mach 4, switch over to the Ramjet and climb for space. (...)

yeah, my G42 uses a similar concept, but with a turbo-rocket instead of a PDE, and it has a dual-stage ram/scramjet that allows entering ram operations at an early mach 2.5

communist - How serious are you about doing this for real?

let it be noted so you remember that if you suceed - I WANT ONE:thumbup:

 

[Urwumpe]

The thread is a nice example of how reality can be avoided by escapism:

Every punk has no problems saying that it would be possible to build such a spacecraft in 35 years, but nobody considers if maybe even building a Gemini Capsule could already be a major endeavor...

 

[Mojave]

In order to increase speed in the deltaglider, we would have to shorten the lenth between wingtips. Make it more or less like a missile.

The delta glider needs two things. Lift and speed.

Maybe like in the F-14tomcat we could have sweeping wings. The wings could unfole for lift and when we get into the trajectory wanted for climb, we could pull the wings in and that would make the glider more streamlined causing it to go faster.


WE could always add engines in the wings that are like the F-117 engines that are rather flat.

 

[RisingFury]

It has already been built for real:

 

[Urwumpe]

Samuel Edwards: Have you ever consciously attended Physics at school? You could maybe design a spacecraft for a Roland Emmerich Movie that way, but real physics are no pony club.

The F-117 engines for example are not flat, they have just a flat nozzle fan for hiding the exhaust. But that has a price: The jet engine loose a lot of effectivity that way, because the nozzle is not very effective. It buys stealth for performance. For a spacecraft, this is the right way to disaster.

Look at a linear aerospike, but then be already warned, that such a engine expects the rest of the spacecraft to support its operation, by giving it the right air flow conditions.

 

[Mojave]

I was just tossing around Ideas.

I still think it would be easier to launch it similiar to the space shuttle.