Elon Musk and using Nukes business...

Andy44

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If there was a deliberate effort to seed mars with lichens and bacteria, what would happen?

iu
 

Col_Klonk

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IMHO Elon Musk is an idiot..
..But he's clever enough to get people to crowd fund his home lithium battery project.. that will help you get off the grid :rofl:
Temperamental lithium in the hands of domestic ignorance.. nice one!!
:hello:

Maybe he's not an idiot.. just the people who have money to waste then :lol:
Even my brother-in-law says I should invest in his projects - Long walk on a short plank was my reply.

---------- Post added at 08:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

On Earth when oxygen first started to be produced, it took 1 billion years before oxygen started to accumulate in the atmosphere as it was reacting with the minerals in the soil.
Maybe Elon doesn't know much about gravity, and it's effect on maintaining an atmosphere that will, amongst a gazillion other things, promote 'growth' on the terrestrial surface, if it remains intact.
zzzzzzzz!!!

---------- Post added at 08:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:46 PM ----------

Then again.. he's not worried about that, but more in the cash flow of his space enterprise :hailprobe:
 
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Lmoy

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Maybe Elon doesn't know much about gravity, and it's effect on maintaining an atmosphere that will, amongst a gazillion other things, promote 'growth' on the terrestrial surface, if it remains intact.

I'm not clear on what you were trying to say here, but it sounds like you're saying that Mars doesn't have strong enough gravity to retain an atmosphere. This is true, but as we discussed earlier, the atmosphere will only degrade over an incredibly long timescale, and of course would always need constant upkeep either way.
 

Col_Klonk

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Well yes.. His terraforming idea of Mars is essentially a costly waste of time if the gravity is not strong, to hold everything in place.

.. and that thin-skinned ship with 8 nauts in it, for a long journey - It looks like a kiddies toy in the playground. Maybe it's a concept model display.. but as always, what's important as quoted by Elon 'People are writing cheques'..

Call me old school but I'd like to have a working product (Build in a garage or VAB ) before I write my cheques.. othewise I consider it a con.
:lol:
 

Soheil_Esy

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Those who are talking about recklessly invading and nuking inhabited planets (the martian underground contains large amount of icy water) had better behave themselves before unleashing this new pandora's box.
drevil-1414025327.png


S☫heil_Esy

Over 20 new viruses discovered in Russia's North and Siberia

September 16, 2015

In the last few years, more than two dozen new dangerous viruses have been discovered in Russia's North and Siberia. Among them is the new giant virus, Mollivirus sibericum, which scientists say has been frozen in ice for 30,000 years.

Mollivirus sibericum is enormous by the standards of the virus world. At 0.6 microns in length, it can be observed under a normal optical microscope, which is quite unusual for viruses. Scientists from Russia's Institute of Physico-Chemical and Biological Problems in Soil Science discovered Mollivirus sibericum, and they are trying to revive the virus in collaboration with France’s National Centre for Scientific Research.

Since DNA samples of Mollivirus sibericum have been preserved, it has been able to infect several amoebas. In 2013, the same Russian-French team discovered another giant virus, Pithovirus sibericum.

According to Elizaveta Rivkina, head of the lab that discovered Mollivirus Sibericum, scientists were not looking for viruses frozen in the ice. The find occurred by chance. "We have been investigating the permafrost for the last 30 years, including such creatures as frozen mammoths and amoeba," said Rivkina. "The virus was accidentally discovered during the course of this work."

"The study of these new viruses will enable scientists to take control of the situation," said the leading Russian virologist, Mikhail Schelkanov. "The irreversible warming in the Arctic will sooner or later lead to undesired consequences and it's better to understand them beforehand."

In the last several years about two dozen new viruses have been discovered in Russia's Far North and Siberia. Almost half are located in high latitudes - on Arctic islands and coasts, in the Barents Sea and the Pacific Ocean. Schelkanov said they are in some ways like slow-motion time-bombs.

"Today, infectious agents that were isolated in Soviet times are being studied actively,’’ Schelkanov explained. "At that time, there was no effective method for studying them and so they were simply preserved at low temperatures in the state's virus collection."

For now it is not clear how dangerous the newly-discovered viruses are for humans. Mollivirus sibericum has more than 500 genes, which is far more than the Influenza A virus’s 11, but much less than the Pandoravirus that has 2,500. Experts say that the number of genes, however, is not an indicator of potency.

"Viruses are intra-cellular parasites and they are more effective when they have a small number of working genes," said Schelkanov.

Rivkina notes that the majority of viruses found in the permafrost are not dangerous to humans. She pointed out that every year tons of frozen rocks fall into Siberian rivers, such as Kolyma, but a Hollywood-style "virus Apocalypse” is nowhere near. "All mammoths found in the permafrost must pass virus control before scientists can start working with them. Until now, no viruses dangerous to humans have been discovered. Of course we are exploring what could happen if the permafrost melts even more, but I do not think this would necessarily lead to a spread of lethal diseases," Rivkina said.

http://rbth.co.uk/science_and_tech/...es_have_been_discovered_in_russias_49301.html
 

Col_Klonk

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One very good reason (probably of many) to keep Elon away from the Big Red Button. He should rather stick to smaller ideas .. like batteries. ;)
 

Lmoy

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Well yes.. His terraforming idea of Mars is essentially a costly waste of time if the gravity is not strong, to hold everything in place.

But again, it would lose its atmosphere over the course of hundreds of thousands of years. So because of that, it would be a costly waste of time? That's like saying it's a costly waste of time to build a bridge over a river because in eighty years the bridge will collapse. Nobody will make that argument, because they know the bridge will be useful for its projected lifespan, and that lifespan can be extended indefinitely with regular maintenance. I'm not saying that terraforming will necessarily be the way to go (though I believe it is), but arguing that it's pointless because it won't be absolutely permanent is silly.
 

Col_Klonk

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Maybe the money would be better spent elsewhere... but if people wish to try it out.. by all means. :tiphat:
It'll be interesting to see what vegetation grows at such a distance from the sun.:)
 

Col_Klonk

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But again, it would lose its atmosphere over the course of hundreds of thousands of years. So because of that, it would be a costly waste of time? That's like saying it's a costly waste of time to build a bridge over a river because in eighty years the bridge will collapse. Nobody will make that argument, because they know the bridge will be useful for its projected lifespan, and that lifespan can be extended indefinitely with regular maintenance. I'm not saying that terraforming will necessarily be the way to go (though I believe it is), but arguing that it's pointless because it won't be absolutely permanent is silly.
I'd think your analogy is about at best 50-350 Mil km off the mark.
While I agree about a 'local' bridge - make sense to keep things within reach.. a bridge span to Mars is a bit of a stretch with regard to 'maintenance'.. and what a big maintenance job will it be.

Give Elon half a chance, he'll 'blow up' the poles in no time... Why.. coz he thinks about dreamy economics = $$$, not common sense (IMHO).

Without thinking to much.. why have the major powers, Cold War et al... for 50 years, not actually launched a nuclear missile..Yet Elon makes a joke about nuking Mars !!! (.. and oh yes, he's thinking about this.. a few corrupt polititians.. and booom).. and you wouldn't care about it.... it's so far away ??

Would you support this type of character ?
:thumbup:
 
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Lmoy

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My point wasn't that terraforming Mars is as practical or viable as building a bridge, just that the fact that it won't be absolutely permanent isn't a valid reason to not do it. There's other, far more prominent reasons (though it's still my vain hope that he'll manage to get us there anyway).

And nuking Mars as part of a terraforming effort is completely different from superpowers pointing superweapons at each other for several decades. Nuking Mars wouldn't hurt anyone, as opposed to nuking Earth. You'd just be using your thermonuclear devices as tools, rather than weapons, similar to how rockets were designed as delivery vehicles for nuclear weapons, but have been repurposed as peaceful tools.
 

Andy44

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You'd just be using your thermonuclear devices as tools, rather than weapons,

Any explosive device may have a constructive use; dynamite was invented to build tunnels. Nuclear explosives may have several non-weapon uses, albeit constrained by the polluting nature of the devices. Both the US and USSR tried to find ways to use them for things like large engineering projects to build canals and so forth, but they proved more trouble then they're worth even when it works as planned. Project Orion was the US project to use nukes as a propulsion device. Most experts agree it would've worked, too, but you don't want to use it anywhere near the atmosphere, and it requires manufacturing lots and lots of bombs, which polite society kind of frowns upon nowadays.

Using a handful of them in space might work. Deflecting an earth-crossing asteroid for example. Not sure about the feasibility of using them to terraform Mars, but it's worth a look on paper at least.
 

Col_Klonk

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I'm all for space exploration.. in a big way..
But (there's always one of these :lol:) we should be careful of what we do, and how we go about it... in a pragmatic and sensible way.

I would advise not using nukes anywhere, except in dire circumstances as Andy44 mentions. My personal view is that, and experience, is that everything in nature/space is 'connected' in a balance (No.. I'm not a tree hugger by any means :rofl:), and if we start blowing things up far away.. it could still come back to bite us... maybe real bad. :)

Just listening to Elon speak.. sure he's made a lot of $$$ and done well for himself... but one should not idolise this, as he does, IMHO, show signs of being a high stakes gambler... this is the first warning sign that things can go horribly wrong.

I'd rather back Richard Branson in this type of excercise.
;)
 
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