fifth fundamental basic force or a new particle discoverd?

Topper

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Hi,

i've just read that it is possible (not sure!), that they have discoverd a fifth basic force. They've said, that It's also possible, that it is a new particle. But they really don't be sure what they've found...

Read more here:
http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/possible-technicolor-force-and-new.html

http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/04/08/particle.physics.tevatron/

Or here for german:
http://derstandard.at/1301874222116/Kopf-des-Tages-Die-grosse-Unbekannte-aus-dem-Detektor

What do you think about that?
 
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garyw

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Interesting but I don't see any references to a 5th fundemental force.

It seems that most scientists are saying 'we need more time and more data' so until they come back with a definitive answer I'm saying that it's a curiosity.

To quote CNN (Emphasis mine):

CNN said:
But the keyword is "may" -- there's a 1 in 1,000 chance that it's just a fluke of statistics. In the coming weeks and months, additional data from Tevatron's detectors and the Large Hadron Collider will probably deliver a more definitive answer about whether indeed a new particle has been discovered.
 

Wishbone

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Haven't we settled the matter already, with the fifth fundamental force being the force of love? 1 in 1000 chance is BTW quite enough for me to admit there's something weird, usually I go with 1% and 5%.
 

Topper

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Interesting but I don't see any references to a 5th fundemental force.

Read here (also in the CNN article):

But that doesn't rule out the potential new particle's involvement in explaining mass, experts said. Physicists Estia Eichten, Kenneth Lane, and Adam Martin said the Tevatron findings may be evidence of a "technicolor" theory involving a brand new force leading to mass. The forces we know about are gravity, electromagnetism and the strong and weak nuclear forces -- "technicolor" would add a fifth.
 

Urwumpe

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Still, to put it in relation: In theoretical physics and at the usual uncertainties involved there, 1 in 1000 means almost certainty that this additional force is a real phenomena.

The LHC data will maybe confirm it, they already started seeking the experiment data for such events. Since the LHC has much more power, such events being just a sensor error is much less probable.
 

RisingFury

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One of my Physics teachers works at CERN at the LHC. He was absent this week, I'll try to ask him next week if there's any truth to this...
 

tblaxland

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The LHC data will maybe confirm it, they already started seeking the experiment data for such events. Since the LHC has much more power, such events being just a sensor error is much less probable.
There is also the DZero detector at Fermilab that, according to Bob Park, should also be able to detect it and reduce the probability of an anomaly further.
 

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It will be interesting to see if this is a new force. I couldn't find any reference to theoretical predictions for the force, but GUT is undeveloped.

I'd speculate they just found some secondary harmonics to known forces. And I base the previous statement on absolutely nothing.
 

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It will be interesting to see if this is a new force. I couldn't find any reference to theoretical predictions for the force, but GUT is undeveloped.

I'd speculate they just found some secondary harmonics to known forces. And I base the previous statement on absolutely nothing.

Now what type of force could this be...
Wind...:rofl:
But seriously it could possibly be just a WIPar a fifth force seems to be improbable...
But currently they are saying it is a Z` boson(which i need to know what it does)
 
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Topper

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Hi,
i'm sorry to say that, but i've just read another aricle about that topic.
In that aricle, they are saying that there are sometimes such sensation scoop, because they plan to cancel the budget of the tevatron collider.
This aricle was verry convincingly so i don't think that there is something true on this news...
 

tblaxland

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Hi,
i'm sorry to say that, but i've just read another aricle about that topic.
In that aricle, they are saying that there are sometimes such sensation scoop, because they plan to cancel the budget of the tevatron collider.
This aricle was verry convincingly so i don't think that there is something true on this news...
It was mentioned in the bottom of the CNN article you linked to. TBH, I'd be surprised if it is a beat up - scientists aren't normally prone to that kind of thing.
 

fsci123

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Hi,
i'm sorry to say that, but i've just read another aricle about that topic.
In that aricle, they are saying that there are sometimes such sensation scoop, because they plan to cancel the budget of the tevatron collider.
This aricle was verry convincingly so i don't think that there is something true on this news...

Im pretty sure that the scientist knew about the cancelation way before it was announced to the public...
 

Wishbone

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Update: looks like the new particle has indeed been discovered. http://www.interactions.org/cms/?pid=1030905
Scientists of the CDF collaboration at the Department of Energy’s Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory announced the observation of a new particle, the neutral Xi-sub-b (Ξb0). This particle contains three quarks: a strange quark, an up quark and a bottom quark (s-u-b). While its existence was predicted by the Standard Model, the observation of the neutral Xi-sub-b is significant because it strengthens our understanding of how quarks form matter. Fermilab physicist Pat Lukens, a member of the CDF collaboration, presented the discovery at Fermilab on Wednesday, July 20. ...
 

fsci123

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Noo it was just another baryon.
 

Quick_Nick

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Well... That's a baryon, so i'm not sure how that relates to new forces.
 

Hielor

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"Neutral Xi-sub-b"? Yeah, seriously needs a better name.
 

Quick_Nick

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"Neutral Xi-sub-b"? Yeah, seriously needs a better name.
Meh. It exists for a fraction of a second when you try really hard. I guess that's what happened to ununoctium and the like.
 
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