Search Looking for a smaller S-IVB

Shadow Addict

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I'm looking for an upper stage that can put roughly the same amount of payload into TLI as the S-IVB, but will fit into a Buran-T (which means it has to be at most 5.8m in diameter). Any help?
 

Jupiter

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Upper stage found

Shadow Addict,
Good to see you, and also, I've found the best upper stage for you; yes, it is an S-IVB, but slimmer and taller, the Saturn S-IVB C-5A, which was meant for a concept of the Saturn V before it got its official configuration, the C-5.

More information is below,
http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/mwade/lvs/saturnc5.htm

Anything else you want to know, just post again
And also, what do you want to do with this stage? Do you want to fly a manned lunar mission with an Energia and an S-IVB, or something else?
 

Wolfer

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It's not an S-VIb but I know for a fact that the new Tranzit tug by Kulch has enough dV to reach a bit more than escape velocity. But I haven't tried with any payloads yet.
 

n72.75

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It's not an S-VIb but I know for a fact that the new Tranzit tug by Kulch has enough dV to reach a bit more than escape velocity. But I haven't tried with any payloads yet.

What about a transit and 2 DMs?

Should give you plenty of impulse.

You can always assemble on orbit.
 

Shadow Addict

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Jupiter, that does look to be perfect for what I need. However, I'm not an addon developer (nor do I have the time to learn how to right now), so unless someone decides to make one I can't use it.

I don't really want to use the Tranzit or a staged system, as I'd prefer just to have a single stage. Smerch would have worked perfectly if it had more fuel and thrust.
 

ijuin

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I'm looking for an upper stage that can put roughly the same amount of payload into TLI as the S-IVB, but will fit into a Buran-T (which means it has to be at most 5.8m in diameter). Any help?

A 5.8m diameter stage containing the same fuel load as the S-IVB stage would be longer than the Buran-T's payload bay. The only way that I can see to get equivalent impulse in a stage that fits into the bay would be if the engines were more efficient than the J-2 (460-ish ISP instead of the 420-ish of the J-2).
 

Shadow Addict

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Doesn't need to be as powerful as the S-IVb, just powerful enough to put 40 tons onto a low dV lunar trajectory.
 

Zane

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Weight is not that much of an issue. A Saturn V without the S-IVb (called a Saturn INT-21) could lift about 80 mT to LEO. The S-IVb's mass was 119 mT and the Apollo LM and CSM weighed 45 mT, for a total of 164 mT.

The idea is that the S-IVb would use part of its own fuel to propel itself into orbit before TLI. The Energia should be fine launching something slightly heavier than its payload capacity (especially when launching from SRC - Space Polygon). All you would need to do is do the final push to orbit using the S-IVb.
 

Shadow Addict

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Yeah, I'm not too worried about weight. It's just the diameter that needs to be smaller.

I still haven't figured anything out yet, by the way. Any suggestions for existing addons? If I can't find anything, I'll probably end up going back to actually using the Saturn V (though I'd far prefer to use Energia).
 

sputnik

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The S-IV, predecessor to the S-IVb, was 18' (5.49m) diameter. It's also shorter, but it MIGHT have enough impulse to do what you need.

There's one in Velcro Saturns.
 

Shadow Addict

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Oh thanks, I'd been looking through Velcro Saturns for an alternative but I missed that one. I'll try it out and see how it works.
 

Shadow Addict

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I just tried a 3.3km/s TLI with the S-IV. It came within a minute of completing the burn, so I'm probably just gonna edit its config a bit so it can complete the burn.
 

sputnik

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Yes, what you need is a "stretch" S-IV, which was never built.

If length of the fairing is also a factor, you might be better off with a staged approach after all. There are a couple Velcro Saturns with an S-IV-Centaur combination, I believe.
 

Shadow Addict

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That'd probably do it, though to tell you the truth I'm trying to avoid staged systems so I don't lose my IMFD/LTMFD plans.

EDIT: I don't know if this is possible to do, but would it be possible for me to somehow just reduce the S-IVB's stage diameter by a meter? I know it's not realistic (though neither is changing the S-IV's Isp), but it'd just be more convenient.
 
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Zane

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Sorry for the bump, but a few days ago I built a little payload fairing type thing for the Energia that'd sort of turn it into an inline launcher and could definitely fit an S-IVB or even something bigger. Would that help you at all here, because if so, I'd be happy to post it on OrbitHangar.
 
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Zane

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Sure, I'd like to try it.

I posted it up there, but it's being processed. I'll post a link in a bit.

EDIT: Alright, here it is: [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4403"]http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=4403[/ame]
 
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