NASA cover-up of STS forced landings?

Belisarius

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In the latest issue of the Spanish magazine Espacio there's an article by Javier Casado (a respected aeronautical engineer and author on space issues in this country) in which he makes the following revelation:

Wayne Hale, former Flight Director for STS flights told him that there were two dramatic incidents of forced landings at Edwards in 1990 and 1991. None of the details were ever made public. Hale refused to name the missions but Casado put together the details to make the following report.

1) On flight STS-31, the mission which launched the HST, on landing approach to Edwards shuttle Discovery faced headwinds which made the speeds drop way below nominal. The touchdown was made at 176 knots (325 km/h), while the mininal safe landing speed is 195 knots. Hale received a phone call from the angry mission commander (unnamed, but it would be Loren Shriver) two hours later, accusing him of placing the lives of the crew in peril. April 29, 1990.

2) The more serious incident occured on the return of STS-37 which launched the Compton Gamma Telescope, and was also an approach to Edwards, this time made by Atlantis. A combination of turbulence at 7,000 feet and crosswinds made the approach untenable and the landing was switched to the dirt runway. But even that wasn't enough. Atlantis touched down 500 metres short of the runway on lake bed, at only 157 knots. If this had happened at KSC, the shuttle would certainly have been destroyed by impacting in the swamplands.

OK, that's the story. Does anyone have any evidence on it one way or the other?

Wiki substantiates the second story but says they touched down only 600 feet short: "Had the landing been attempted at the Kennedy Space Center, the result would have been a touchdown on the paved underrun preceding the runway and would have been much more obvious".
They say obvious, Casado says fatal.

STS 31 landing vid (looks normal to me)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYyIdPVYNHs

No vid available for STS-37
 

movieman

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In the latest issue of the Spanish magazine Espacio there's an article by Javier Casado (a respected aeronautical engineer and author on space issues in this country) in which he makes the following revelation

How is this supposed to be a revelation? I remember reading about it on the web quite a while ago.
 

simonpro

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I thought the STS-31 landing problems were fairly well known, they've been mentioned in a number of textbooks and probably in other media too.
 

Urwumpe

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I think the scenarios are not unlikely. The space shuttle depends a lot on the high altitude winds during reentry, as it slows down more shallow and slower as a capsule. When a wind prediction before the deorbit burn is wrong, it is possible that the Shuttle is arriving at the TAEM phase with already too low energy, and forced to change landing parameters ASAP.

But I don't think 176 KEAS is a dangerous speed for a landing shuttle. could become a pretty hard landing as you have less lift during the flare phase, but the shuttle has some tolerance, and usually lands with slightly more energy as minimal needed.

Turbulence can make the Guidance ineffective or even instable, again requiring crew action. 600 ft short is also not too bad, but a risk. the shuttle would move only a few meters on the threshold, damaging tires and runway, but it would not end in a loss of vehicle.

I looked into the landing statistics of the space shuttle, to confirm the values and the other parameters of the landing:


STS-31: Edwards, Runway 22, 177 KEAS at MGTD.
STS-37: Edwards, Runway 33, 168 KEAS at MGTD (But 161 KEAS at Threshold)

STS-1: Edwards, Runway 23, 183 KEAS at MGTD.
STS-3: White Sands, Runway 17, 220 KEAS at MGTD


The data is publicly available so cover up is a bit strange...
 

Belisarius

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Looking at your stats Urwumpe, I'd say the STS-31 landing was only a bit underspeed, but the indications are that the STS-37 was badly low on velocity.

600 ft short is also not too bad, but a risk. the shuttle would move only a few meters on the threshold, damaging tires and runway, but it would not end in a loss of vehicle.

Casado claims they were 500 metres short, which at KSC would put them in the swamp, definitely a loss-of-vehicle.
 

simonpro

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Well the thing is it wasn't at KSC and thus the comparison is meaningless. KSC is completely different in terms of weather conditions and so the incident would never have happened in the first place.
 

Belisarius

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Gosh, I thought you could have strong winds and turbulence just about anywhere. What's special about Florida that it doesn't produce adverse weather conditions?
 

DaveS

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Well the thing is it wasn't at KSC and thus the comparison is meaningless. KSC is completely different in terms of weather conditions and so the incident would never have happened in the first place.
Exactly. KSC is known for tropical conditions(rain, cloud cover, thunder storms etc) while EDW is known for having very high winds late in the day. I guess that's attributed to the fact that EDW is right in the middle of the Mojave Desert.
 

simonpro

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Now now, no need to get sarcastic.
I'm saying that if the flight had landed at KSC instead it wouldn't have experienced thos eexact conditions, so wouldn't have had the same problem. I'm not stupid, of course you can get turbulence anywhere but I fail to see the point in saying that if STS-37 had landed at KSC it would've ended up in a swamp. Weather gonogo rules are much more strict at KSC to prevent exactly that from happening.
 

Belisarius

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Great source, thanks. I notice here he says 1600 feet short, that's 480 metres. He also comments on pilot error which wasn't mentioned in the other report.

Re the video, thanks also. It's clear that for the first 8-10 seconds after touchdown there are clouds of dust rising from the wheels. Then Atlantis gets onto the cleared lakebed segment and the dust stops rising. That could easily be half a kilometre short.
 

JamesG

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The Orbiter isn't exactly a very good aeroplane. Thats the reason Edwards is prefered from a mission standpoint. It has a much larger margin of error. KSC is only used because it is cheaper due to not needing the ferry flight to take it back to Florida.
 

pete.dakota

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Citing this video list of Shuttle flights, after 20:15 minutes on the STS-37 film, the commander talks about the approach and landing having low energy; through fault of his own flying the HAC and some 'unusual winds'. He says the landing was still safe. However he does mention that the landing occurred on 'Lake bed runway 33', which had not been landed on by a Shuttle before. So maybe there's something going on. Though, it's not really so serious a matter that it would need covering up, IMO.

And on the STS-31 video, the commander also mentions losing airspeed faster than he is used to in the Shuttle Training Aircraft, and states that the landing went 'very smoothly'.
 

Belisarius

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1) I fail to see the point in saying that if STS-37 had landed at KSC it would've ended up in a swamp. 2) Weather gonogo rules are much more strict at KSC to prevent exactly that from happening.

1) I didn't make that comparison. It was in the Wiki article about STS-37 and in the piece by Dr Casado, as I mentioned in the first post. I'm asking for substantiated information about these incidents, because I like to write informed articles on space issues.

In the piece linked to by Redburne above, written by Danny Deger, Entry Training Flow Supervisor in charge of training Shuttle pilots for approach and landing, we see the following:
"If the landing had been at Kennedy, we would have lost the orbiter and the crew. The short landing was a classic case of a chain of errors."

Saying the weather conditions don't apply and that so-and-so is meaningless sounds like a simple knee-jerk response to me. Moreover it discourages those who might want to help me find out about it. Clever people like you really need to be on their guard against using the easy put-down.

2) Source?


Fantastic source, thanks a lot. It seems this is where Casado got his details from. I trawled through it but no mention of the STS-37 landing.


-----Posted Added-----


Quotes from the Hale blog post, perhaps justifying the term cover-up:

"The tag line on all the news reports was that the shuttle landed safely. As far as the public knew it was all routine and there had been no danger...

[but] the speed of touchdown was 176 knots. Oh no! Not 195 knots which is the standard target or even the 185 knots special exception, the
shuttle touched down at 176 knots! The Commander really did have to stretch it out. The computer models did the math: if touchdown had been at the target speed of 195 knots, the wheels would have hit the ground 130 feet BEFORE THE RUNWAY THRESHOLD. Not good."

OK, it's not a cover-up in the sense of "kill everyone who knows and hide the bodies". It's more of a "let's not make the embarrassing facts known to the public" thing, which is much more the NASA style.
 

simonpro

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If you think that was a put down I'm a little worried. My source was "Accidents and disasters in manned spaceflight" by Shayler, btw.
 

Belisarius

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Forget put-down. Let's go with unthinking knee-jerk and most unhelpful response.
 

tblaxland

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Weather gonogo rules are much more strict at KSC to prevent exactly that from happening.
2) Source?
Reviewing the flight rules (available here and summary page 2-32 attached for reference) doesn't show any difference between KSC and EDW (unless I am reading it wrong).

Fantastic source, thanks a lot. It seems this is where Casado got his details from. I trawled through it but no mention of the STS-37 landing.
From Hale's blog 2008-09-26 where he wrote about STS-37 payload deployment:
There were more adventures ahead, both for that robotic observatory and for the shuttle on STS-37 -- stories for another day.
So we may hear more from him (he was the Ascent/Entry FD for that flight, so he would have the first hand knowledge).
 

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Belisarius

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Cheers for that, mate. Looking at it (tho it's only one page) I can't see any different criteria for EDW and KSC either.

I think I've got all the sources I need now to get going on an article. Thanks to all who contributed with documents, links etc. I appreciate the time and trouble. :cheers:
 
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