[NASSP 8] [Apollo 7] Rendezvous questions & difficulties

Thymo

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I see you made 9 marks and P20 running in the background. That means they are automatically incorporated. P34 will never show you a N49 display.
 
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indy91

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I see you made 9 marks and P20 running in the background. That means they are automatically incorporated. P34 will never show you a N49 display.

Not true for Apollo 7, there is a padloaded threshold at which the mark is accepted automatically or if the N49 should be displayed. That is set to -1 for position and velocity threshold, which means that for Apollo 7 every mark will show the N49, even if the mark has near zero DR and DV.

I think what actually is going on in that second scenario you posted is that you are on the final pass through P34. The normal workflow with P34 is that you start the program, give it a bunch of inputs and then when you get to the N45 display you can choose to do marks, or recycle the program with V32E or start the final pass through with PRO. On the final pass the program doesn't allow any marks to be made anymore. So you probably did the PRO on the N45 prematurely, instead of a V32. You can actually see if you are in the final pass through P34 in register 3 of N45. There are three things it can show:

-00001: for other than final pass
-00002: for final pass with IMU not aligned (I guess this is a bit unlikely to get)
+XXX.XX DEG: Middle gimbal angle (yaw) of the TPI maneuver (final pass and IMU aligned).

For you it shows +00267, which means you are in the final pass and the TPI maneuver will have a yaw angle of 2.67° (I think this is so that you know that the maneuver can be made with the current alignment and won't go into gimbal lock).

I think the only way to resolve this is to go to P00 and then start P20 and P34 again.
 

sw34669

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I also have a question about the PAD at 14:20 for a phasing man at 15:42
I didnt get either a null PAD or a "Second Phasing Maneuver not necessary."
I'm now in the Phasing Maneuver with no pad should i just abort it?
thx
 

indy91

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I'll answer both your questions here.

I'm playing about with apollo 7 at the moment, quick question a pad comes through for a re-entry at 08:17. I assume this is an abort PAD if needed. How would I act on it, would i use one of the checklists in the MFD from the index as I left the oven on and have to return home.

Yeah Apollo 7 prepared for an early deorbit maneuver, with P30 uplink, deorbit REFSMMAT and Maneuver PAD. I think this is kind of training for the deorbit burn, kind of like Apollo 11 practiced lunar ascent procedures just after landing on the Moon. But it is also for the case they actually had to abort the mission early. It was the first Block II CSM flight and many things could have happened that would cut the mission short. So this was just in preparation for not receiving the GO to continue with the mission. You could fly this of course. If you use the abort option in the CAPCOM menu then it will disable the normal on-orbit updates. It doesn't give you an Entry PAD though, so you have to do without that. You can use the word checklists and the deorbit preparations stuff in the Checklist MFD.

I also have a question about the PAD at 14:20 for a phasing man at 15:42
I didnt get either a null PAD or a "Second Phasing Maneuver not necessary."
I'm now in the Phasing Maneuver with no pad should i just abort it?

Hmm, that is strange. Can you post a scenario just after the MCC calculation for the second phasing burn should have happened? Maybe it is failing somehow. Did you get a "Thread started" message without a "Thread done" message?
 

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I'll answer both your questions here.



Yeah Apollo 7 prepared for an early deorbit maneuver, with P30 uplink, deorbit REFSMMAT and Maneuver PAD. I think this is kind of training for the deorbit burn, kind of like Apollo 11 practiced lunar ascent procedures just after landing on the Moon. But it is also for the case they actually had to abort the mission early. It was the first Block II CSM flight and many things could have happened that would cut the mission short. So this was just in preparation for not receiving the GO to continue with the mission. You could fly this of course. If you use the abort option in the CAPCOM menu then it will disable the normal on-orbit updates. It doesn't give you an Entry PAD though, so you have to do without that. You can use the word checklists and the deorbit preparations stuff in the Checklist MFD.



Hmm, that is strange. Can you post a scenario just after the MCC calculation for the second phasing burn should have happened? Maybe it is failing somehow. Did you get a "Thread started" message without a "Thread done" message?
i dont remember seeing one but it's possible i kept a razor eye a good time before and after the pad was due.
 

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In case you need a "Rendezvous tutorial" the rendezvous of the realtime simulation run I did 2 weeks ago is already available:



Best regards
 

indy91

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i dont remember seeing one but it's possible i kept a razor eye a good time before and after the pad was due.

I think the calculation has already happened (at exactly 14:16h GET) and it concluded that no maneuver is necessary. Maybe you missed the message or for some reason it didn't show up. Actually if I let it do the calculation again (CAPCOM menu button 9 for the debug menu and then 8 for Reset State) it results in a second phasing maneuver of 1.0 ft/s, which is exactly the threshold for deciding if the maneuver is necessary or not. If you want to be on the safe side, just let the MCC redo the calculation like that and perform that 1 ft/s maneuver.
 

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I think the calculation has already happened (at exactly 14:16h GET) and it concluded that no maneuver is necessary. Maybe you missed the message or for some reason it didn't show up. Actually if I let it do the calculation again (CAPCOM menu button 9 for the debug menu and then 8 for Reset State) it results in a second phasing maneuver of 1.0 ft/s, which is exactly the threshold for deciding if the maneuver is necessary or not. If you want to be on the safe side, just let the MCC redo the calculation like that and perform that 1 ft/s maneuver.
thanks indy perfect i now know what the debug menu is for. 1 ft/s between friends is nothing i'm just about to hit ncc1 so will carry on.
 

sw34669

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stupid question I cant see the other ship in the SCT but can in the magnified SXT in planetarium mode is there a range setting somewhere in orbiter that's stopping this
although i'm now 40 minutes from impact it's a busy little period that last hour. Great fun and helped a lot by STS with his live A7 stream WITH ACTUAL COLD/FLU just like the real crew now thats what I call attention to detail.
el diablo está en el detiail
 
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STS

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stupid question I cant see the other ship in the SCT but can in the magnified SXT in planetarium mode is there a range setting somewhere in orbiter that's stopping this
although i'm now 40 minutes from impact it's a busy little period that last hour. Great fun and helped a lot by STS with his live A7 stream WITH ACTUAL COLD/FLU just like the real crew now thats what I call attention to detail.
el diablo está en el detiail
I don´t think I understand properly your question, but may be something related to Orbiter 2016. Markers dissapear under some conditions...

On the planetarion mode options you can find a checkbox for displaying a marker around vessels. I think the checkbox is labelled as "Vessels/Ships" but cannot remember properly.

About the flu, yeah, it enhanced the experience, but it was not at all intended or expected :giggle: . (There is a lot of people with this kind of flus and "flu-rate" this autumn in my country... the one I had during the mission was the second one in four weeks... )
 

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My question was the outer box around the SIIV when using F9 can only be seen in the sextant under zoom and not either outside F1 view or through the telescope until a certain range. I wondered if this range could be set somewhere or if it was tied to some real life number. For example, going to external view and hitting F9 and looking for the other ship the box will not appear around it until a certain range. So each display (inside outside 3d or 2d panel) must have a range that vessels show when we hit F9.

I am still not seeing the other vessell in COAS with a box around it and I have vessell ticked and am in F9 mode planetarium mode.
1638454264819.png
 

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That sounds like an orbiter limitation to me, I don't think you can adjust this range without editing orbiter.
 

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For knowing where the S-IVB is when using COAS, I took a note of what stars are around the S-IVB (On the optics) so I know moreless where to look at when using COAS. Then, if I zoom In and Out (Z and X keys or mousewheel on VC), and having luck and faith, the S-IVB marker appears.

(Some luck and a lot of faith :) )
 

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That sounds like an orbiter limitation to me, I don't think you can adjust this range without editing orbiter.
This is defined (somewhat indirectly) in the vessel's DLL using "VESSEL4::SetSize(double size)". This is also the function that controls how close the camera can get in external view. I don't know the relation between size and how far the marker is visible, but setting "size" to a large enough number could make the S-IVB visible from Mars!
 

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For knowing where the S-IVB is when using COAS, I took a note of what stars are around the S-IVB (On the optics) so I know moreless where to look at when using COAS. Then, if I zoom In and Out (Z and X keys or mousewheel on VC), and having luck and faith, the S-IVB marker appears.

(Some luck and a lot of faith :) )
ive been doing the same luck and faith but wondered where it's hard coded
 

sw34669

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This is defined (somewhat indirectly) in the vessel's DLL using "VESSEL4::SetSize(double size)". This is also the function that controls how close the camera can get in external view. I don't know the relation between size and how far the marker is visible, but setting "size" to a large enough number could make the S-IVB visible from Mars!
Ah ok I wondered and I do agree that making it more real stops too much cheating and brings in a little chance. It also is a bit of a treassure hunt so that's good.

I have a workaround I found when struggling to find it. Bring the S-IVB up on the sxt, pause and skip to external. It's there now until pause is released and that param gets set :)

Have a good weekend all and thanks for the help
 
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