Flight Question Re-entry

ADSWNJ

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Guys - looks like a genuine misunderstanding, that's all. I certainly didn't read anything bad into Ripley's comments when I read it through first time. Was it the word "monitor" Thumper, that you took to mean something like "look at the damn screen in front of you", rather than "the DeltaGlider cockpit screen"? If so - shake hands and make up again! :thumbup:

One thing I really like in this forum is the overwhelming bias towards genuinely wanting to offer opinions, share experiences and learn form one another. I think both of you definitely show this in your posts, so hopefully you can get past this quickly.
 

Hurricane

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I've been doing this for about 6 years now, and I couldn't re-enter with a DGIV or XR vessel without AerobrakeMFD.

Good Luck!

Well I can... :) It simply is a matter of mentality. I said: I can do it without, so I did it without it!
You simply have to understand the relationship between altitude, speed, and potential energy during every single step of the reentry. :tiphat:
 

Urwumpe

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Yes, that works. But reentry MFD with its minimalist data is my favorite there for telling you how to manually guide yourself to your target. Never missed a landing site with it. Not even when trying a suborbital mission with the Dynasoar.
 

n122vu

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Not sure where Grover got his info from, but if it works for him, more power to him. I have always, always, always, burned to a 1.1-1.2 reentry angle when flying the DGIV. Can't remember which tutorial I read that taught me that, but it works perfectly. If I find it I'll post a link.


**Edit**
Oh, wait, I remembered. I learned it way back during beta testing of the DGIV.

Reentry tutorial for DGIV
 
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TMac3000

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I think perhaps Thumper's problem was when Ripley said somthing about the "hidden" manual; Thumper translated this as "Sheesh, you couldn't even find a simple PDF?"

I would have been a tad miffed at that too, but not miffed enough to say anything.

@Ripley: I'm sure you didn't mean to sound condescending, but perhaps there was a more tactfull way to say it?

@Thumper: Perceived condescention, however unintentional, is annoying I know. But perhaps save your anger for something more overt? I don't usually respond angrily to something unless it is very clearly an attack.

Now then, to quote ADSWNJ, shake hands and make up:) I'm sure neither of you meant any harm;)
 

Urwumpe

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Not sure where Grover got his info from, but if it works for him, more power to him. I have always, always, always, burned to a 1.1-1.2 reentry angle when flying the DGIV. Can't remember which tutorial I read that taught me that, but it works perfectly. If I find it I'll post a link.

I use 1.2° for any DG... vehicle.
 

n122vu

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I think the 0.7 angle is the root of the problem (even though you weren't sure until recently where to find this data, I'm guessing you were ending up with about the same angle anyway, based on your results).

Basically, you're coming in too shallow and skipping off the atmosphere like a pebble on a pond. Try a higher/steeper angle, between 1.0 and 1.5, now that you know where to look.

Looking forward to hearing better results, whether fully successful or not. It's a process.
 

Cras

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Yes, that works. But reentry MFD with its minimalist data is my favorite there for telling you how to manually guide yourself to your target. Never missed a landing site with it. Not even when trying a suborbital mission with the Dynasoar.

May I ask where Re-entry MFD is available to download? Because I cannot find it on Orbit Hangar. I would like to give it a shot.
 

thumper235

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I am *not* going to be a jerk nor will I engage in any flamer-war type behavior with anyone on these forums.


perhaps I did take the comment wrong, maybe I didnt. For possibly taking it wrong, I am sorry. Its all to easy when you communicate with someone via typing messages to misunderstand something. You don't see the body language, tone of voice, etc. This leads to things being misunderstood. I will briefly explain how I took it wrong. I do not want hard feelings on THESE forums. You put me on youtube, /b/, anywhere else and I dont care. I will not do it here. This comment was taken for what I saw. I am very familiar with looking up my basic info as best as possible like using PDF's that are packaged with addons. I make an honest effort to not be "lazy" before asking something because it annoys alot of people around here.

"PDF manual is "hidden" in:
YOUR ORBITER FOLDER\Doc\DeltaGliderIV\res\DGIV_Documentation_en .pdf"


I took the comment as

1) not researching my information - Being Lazy
2) Tossed in an insulting measure - "hidden" when most if not all Addons come with a PDF. This I felt insinuated I am either too herpderp to look at one or otherwise.


This is all I am going to speak on this. I have made an apology. Ripley, you want to remain tick'd off so be it. Perhaps you should re-evaluate your comment before you decide. Regardless, I am sorry for the misunderstanding if your comment was innocent and I read it in an inflammatory manor. I still do, and I have now shown it to a couple people at work and received the same response. BUT, I am only human, and like all humans we subject to massive flaws. Its when we show forgiveness that truly makes people divine-like.

This is all I am going to comment on this. Anything else contact me via private message.
 

Urwumpe

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I tried to ignore this stupid noise, but now, I feel pretty upset, so let me criticize your bad behavior before things get really bad, and no, I don't want to make this in private. It is an open letter to the ignorant:

Now that I read this second post, I really start to see your third sentence one post earlier as no humble understatement, but just as a matter of fact.

Out of the many options that you could have chosen, you seem to like the most self-destructive way, don't you think that your "reentry" into this thread needs more attention than your orbiter skills?

And no, don't worry. Such posts don't have any entertainment factor, to end at youtube, they are just sad. Such posts are better placed in school books about media and social competence. Maybe also about reflection and how to handle the errors that you have done.

Or, in less polite words:

Who do you think you are to attack those, who really try to help you without letting you look as stupid as you make yourself appear all by yourself?

Nobody here attacked you for you missing the DGIV manuals, and believe me, the "hidden" was already pretty polite considering that it is really impossible to miss the very good DGIV documentation, if you looked into your orbiter folder for the orbiter manuals one day earlier. Did you expect something like "Oh, you poor poor guy?" You just said something on the magnitude of being on the Champs de Mars and shouting "Where have those bloody Parisians hidden their Eifel tower?" Loud public laughter should have been the least of your worries.

Maybe you also complain just, because people had been too friendly to you. Maybe you really just troll for making us look like elitist :censored: . But this community is not like that. We all started as beginners (even martins, there is evidence for this claim) and we all know that Orbiter isn't the easiest game in the world. Nuts-and-Bolts Helicopter simulations are more intuitive. But what people really dislike here is people not doing their homework. Not looking for information first, before asking. or defending the right to be stupid. Nobody has that right here. You either take the steep learning curve, even in regards of the pretty complex community here, or you better leave it. Farmville is much easier and needs no special documentation.
 

Tommy

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What re-entry angle you use depends somewhat on where you de-orbit. IIRC, Grover's tutorial has you de-orbiting 180 degrees from target - and a ReA of about 0.7 is correct for that. If you used a steeper angle you would likely come up short.

I should point out that de-orbiting that far from target will usually result in a "rollercoaster" re-entry - you will "bounce" a bit up and down if you are using AerobrakeMFD and a constant AoA. This isn't a problem - it's just an easy way to do it.

If you have a problem with bouncing back out of the atmosphere when you use a low ReA, just increase your AoA (45 - 50 degrees) or your bank angle to reduce lift.
 

thumper235

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Wow. Just wow.

Someone kindly sent me a private message explaining that there has been a mix up in the past over the PDF location. *I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THIS* If I would have received that message sooner, my post would have been completely different. The <expletive> guy was genuinely trying to help me and I understand that now.

There are no undertones to my posts that point in any direction. Anything that is made to sound like me poking fun at myself is just that. Its to make YOU the prospective helper chuckle a little bit. I did not know attempting to make people laugh could be such a sinister plot point at an evil elitist community. None of this is trolling. If I was trolling, I would be liek

Oh mah gawd teh Apollo mission were da faked?! NO WAY!


I will remove my presence from the forums.

I will also, make an appology for the mis-understanding.
 

Aeadar

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As a middle age fellow I realize that nowadays many people are thin-skinned enough to get blisters while shaking hands, but, as you say, with text there is little (other than smileys) to indicate the tone or attitude of the poster. Therefore, I urge you to try and be a bit more thick-skinned. No-one here dislikes someone because they missed something; there's quite a lot one can do in orbiter, which means a LOT of documentation. It's easy to miss things.

I think the thing that people REALLY do dislike is for someone to allow a 'slight', whether perceived or real to result in a defensive posture that derails ones own thread.;)
 
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mojoey

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I tried to ignore this stupid noise, but now, I feel pretty upset, so let me criticize your bad behavior before things get really bad, and no, I don't want to make this in private. It is an open letter to the ignorant:

Now that I read this second post, I really start to see your third sentence one post earlier as no humble understatement, but just as a matter of fact.

Out of the many options that you could have chosen, you seem to like the most self-destructive way, don't you think that your "reentry" into this thread needs more attention than your orbiter skills?

And no, don't worry. Such posts don't have any entertainment factor, to end at youtube, they are just sad. Such posts are better placed in school books about media and social competence. Maybe also about reflection and how to handle the errors that you have done.

Or, in less polite words:

Who do you think you are to attack those, who really try to help you without letting you look as stupid as you make yourself appear all by yourself?

Nobody here attacked you for you missing the DGIV manuals, and believe me, the "hidden" was already pretty polite considering that it is really impossible to miss the very good DGIV documentation, if you looked into your orbiter folder for the orbiter manuals one day earlier. Did you expect something like "Oh, you poor poor guy?" You just said something on the magnitude of being on the Champs de Mars and shouting "Where have those bloody Parisians hidden their Eifel tower?" Loud public laughter should have been the least of your worries.

Maybe you also complain just, because people had been too friendly to you. Maybe you really just troll for making us look like elitist :censored: . But this community is not like that. We all started as beginners (even martins, there is evidence for this claim) and we all know that Orbiter isn't the easiest game in the world. Nuts-and-Bolts Helicopter simulations are more intuitive. But what people really dislike here is people not doing their homework. Not looking for information first, before asking. or defending the right to be stupid. Nobody has that right here. You either take the steep learning curve, even in regards of the pretty complex community here, or you better leave it. Farmville is much easier and needs no special documentation.

These words, are the price of admission to O-F
 

Ripley

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Well, thumper235 is so upset that he/she even decided to not receive PMs.

I've just found it out after trying to send my PM reply to his/her kind PM and so here it is.
After this I will NOT return on the argument. You know, I'm nearly 50 years old, and I don't waste (anymore) my time in these kind of things.

Anyway, my thanks to those who participated in the..."dispute". I appreciated it.

--------------------

Yes it was just a classical web-misunderstanding (from your side, may I add).
Susceptibility is a subjective behaviour.
You evidently felt "attacked" by something that wasn't meant to do that. You even showed it to 2 of your work mates...c'mon, chill down, relax!

Sorry to have caused all that.

From me there was NO sarcastic intention whatsoever of understating that you were a lazy guy, as I've read on the thread, or that you should have ReadTheFantasticManual, as common forum language uses to say, or whatever else.

I'm always polite on all the forums I subscribed to, and in this case I always love to help newbies (don't take it in a bad way) in any form, because I love Orbiter and I love to make access to some of its features easier for someone else.
Why not sharing our own knowledge?
Peace.
 

ADSWNJ

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I agree with you Ripley. I see it all the time in business emails - a turn of phrase or something that the other party massively over-reacts to, and you immediately have a falling-out that was never intended. Just try to see how it could be interpreted from the other side, apologize for any unintentional misunderstanding, and move on, etc. Sigh.

Come back Thumper ... it's not worth walking away from this forum over. Pick a new thread, a new topic and we are all still here to listen to you and engage with you again.
 

kuddel

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...please stop! I'm bored... ;)
 
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