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Sbb1413

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So weird that the Artemis I will succeed Artemis II!! It will probably kill the crew!!
 

DaveS

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So weird that the Artemis I will succeed Artemis II!! It will probably kill the crew!!
They're not flying EM-1 before EM-2. EM-1 will still fly first. They're just moving some personnel around to help out with some issues that the EM-2 Flight Software has. This is perfectly normal. They did it all the time during the shuttle days.
 

GLS

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4throck

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"mid-to-late ’21 time frame"
That's 2022 for sure.

Don't doubt it will fly a few times (while they have shuttle engines) just like the Saturn Ib/V did after Apollo.
I'd like to see that, but it's a dead end, just like the Shuttle.
If something good came out of the ISS experience, is that multiple simpler vehicles work better.
 

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I know the plan is for the SLS 1st stage to fire longer but didn't NASA look at an engine pod to detach from Shuttle C the with a heat shield and chute land in the ocean ? NASA also dunked an S1 B first stage into the gulf then fished it out and took it to Stenis and fired it off in a test stand several times
 

GLS

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I know the plan is for the SLS 1st stage to fire longer but didn't NASA look at an engine pod to detach from Shuttle C the with a heat shield and chute land in the ocean ?
AFAIK, the only part of the Shuttle-C that was reusable was the SRBs.
But something like that is IMO the only way to make SLS "less-bad". Building a shuttle aft compartment for each rocket is not the best of ideas: the SSME needs good electrical power, hydraulic pressure, 2 kinds of pneumatic pressure and "fancy electronics" if you want to fully use it's command and data capabilities. Yes, it's one of the most reliable and high-performance engines ever, so it will provide a very up-mass capability, but to lose them and all that they need, every time it launches... it's... hmm... ::picard-facepalm:
It's a "reusable-rocket" engine, and so it should not be used in a "disposable-rocket", and now they are paying for this mistake :shrug:


NASA also dunked an S1 B first stage into the gulf then fished it out and took it to Stenis and fired it off in a test stand several times
I think it was just a H-1 engine.
 

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I'm no expert but it simply seems too complex.

Look at it from the point of view of launch delays.
The Russians send Soyuz up regardless of weather (as far as I know). They simply designed the system so that wind doesn't bump it with the tower at launch; sub-zero temperatures are not a problem; recovery is not a problem (land recovery), etc.

Of course, their simpler approach means less payload ability.
But the trade-off are more frequent, on time launches.

And from a payload point of view.
There are 4 Soyuz & 3 Progress launches each year.
That's about 50000 kg of payload, about half of SLS block I (~90000 kg).
But if SLS only launches once in two years.... the payload ends up being the same!

I'd favor something that caries a bit less than the SLS, but launches more often, let's say twice a year...
Actually it exists, it's the Falcon Heavy... :)
 
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it's just a drink can stretched 110 meters. what is it worth?
 

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SLS Monthly Highlights : July 2019 (pdf)




Summary

LOX tank readied for testing
The fourth and final structural test article for the SLS core stage was unloaded from NASA’s barge Pegasus at Marshall Space Flight Center July 9. The nearly 70-foot-long liquid oxygen (LOX) tank structural test article, which was manufactured at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, is structurally identical to the flight version and will be tested at Marshall. The LOX tank is one of two tanks in the rocket’s core stage that will supply propellant to the four RS-25 engines, which will produce more than 2 million pounds of thrust to help launch Artemis 1, the first flight of NASA’s Orion spacecraft and SLS, to the Moon. Marshall has tested major components of the core stage, upper stage and payload structures for SLS to confirm they will be able to withstand the forces and conditions they will ultimately face during launch and flight. To date, Marshall test engineers have completed testing on the entire upper part of the rocket, which includes the interim cryogenic propulsion stage that will give Orion the final boost to the Moon, and two of the four core stage pieces being tested: the engine section that connects to the four RS-25 engines and the intertank, the piece of the core stage that feels the most force during launch and solid rocket booster separation.

Green Run : test like you fly

Before the SLS rocket launches the Orion spacecraft during the Artemis 1 mission, the rocket’s core stage will be tested on Earth. NASA will test the rocket’s 212-foot tall core stage — the tallest rocket stage the agency has ever built — with a “Green Run” test to help ensure mission success and pave the way for future Artemis missions carrying crew to the Moon. Missions at the Moon will be a stepping stone to prepare for human exploration of Mars.During Green Run testing, engineers will install the core stage in the B-2 Test Stand at NASA’s Stennis Space Center near Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, for a series of tests that will build like a crescendo over several months. The term “Green Run” refers to new flight hardware tested together for the first time. The stage will be fueled and pressurized, and the test series culminates with firing up all four RS-25 engines to demonstrate that the engines, tanks, fuel lines, valves, pressurization system and software can all perform together just as they will on launch day.

Artemis 1 : the launch sequence(YouTube)

Hear the countdown and see how NASA’s SLS, the world’s most powerful rocket, will send the Orion spacecraft to the Moon on the Artemis 1 Mission. This video takes you through the pre-launch sequence at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida and through all the flight operations as SLS launches Orion and sends it on to lunar orbit.

SLS on the road : Lehman College, Bronx, NY


Kids color their vision for the SLS rocket during the City of Science at Lehman College in the Bronx, New York, July 27. The event is part of the World Science Festival, which hosts science celebration events around the world.


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Jeez Is that a coloring book they are working on ???
 

Sbb1413

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it's just a drink can stretched 110 meters. what is it worth?
It is better than the stainless steel can in terms of abort modes. However, I want both cans.
 

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Throwing a few $100M of RS-25 engines designed and demonstrated to be reusable away just breaks my heart. The fact that they are working on cheaper and disposable versions of the RS-25 only to be used AFTER the current reusable stock is used up is just another stab to the heart. NASA can't envision reusable technology ever being relevant for a rocket?


NASA absolutely needs to get out of the rocket business as they simply can't innovate anymore in the political and fiscal environment it exists in. It's nothing but a pork farm now.
Interesting article from ARS TECHNICA about using modified Dragon spacecraft and SPACE X Falcon Heavy as boosters to fly to moon

https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/08/could-a-dragon-spacecraft-fly-humans-to-the-moon-its-complicated/

A modified Dragon is well within the capability of a Falcon Heavy (TLI mass ~ 18000 kg) I have seen tables that ordinary Falcon 9 has a TLI
mass of 6000 kg in expendable mode Probably marginal for fully loaded Dragon . Wonder if could be modified with 3rd stage , maybe a Centaur


Beats throwing away 2 billion on the SLA turkey farm ……...
 

Sbb1413

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Maybe stretching the upper stage and using RL-10 instead of Merlin 1D Vaccum would send Dragon spacecraft to the Moon using expandable Falcon 9. However, I am concerned about its atmospheric reentry after the lunar flyby. It would go nearly as fast as the Apollo reentry capsule and would cause damages to the heat shield, defeating its purpose of reusability. Maybe using Starship heat shield would mitigate the problem.
 

Gargantua2024

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RL-10 runs however on LH2/LOX, retrofitting it into the Falcon 9/Heavy (2nd stage) would need its tanks redesigned, unless if the 2nd stage be replaced with a Centaur/ACES...which is highly unlikely given that SpaceX and ULA are intense competitors
 

Sbb1413

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You're right. Sending Dragon to the Moon is pretty complicated. The only way to send tourists to the Moon (other than Starship) is to use Boeing Starliner and Atlas V N42 (4 strap-on boosters).
 

dman

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Maybe stretching the upper stage and using RL-10 instead of Merlin 1D Vaccum would send Dragon spacecraft to the Moon using expandable Falcon 9. However, I am concerned about its atmospheric reentry after the lunar flyby. It would go nearly as fast as the Apollo reentry capsule and would cause damages to the heat shield, defeating its purpose of reusability. Maybe using Starship heat shield would mitigate the problem.
SPACEX has already done the studies about using Dragon on lunar missions. This includes heavier heat shield, radiation hardening of electronics,
better communications to operate at lunar distances and navigation upgrades as Dragon currently uses GPS

Also probably need some habitability upgrades like a space ytilet and onboard microwave for preparing food

As for Centaur upper stage currently manufactured by ULA, sure something can be worked out NASA probably have ULA sell some Centaur to SPACEX
 

Sbb1413

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As for Centaur upper stage currently manufactured by ULA, sure something can be worked out NASA probably have ULA sell some Centaur to SPACEX
99.997% unilkely, since ULA and SpaceX are in a new space race. We have never seen ULA cooperating with SpaceX.
 
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