The Apollo astronauts really had to trust each other

[statisticsnerd]

I was watching Apollo 18 tonight and one of the major themes of the movie is trust. Nate (the guy who was infected) pleads with Anderson not to kill him even though his eyes are bloodshot, he has a gray spiderweb thing on his chest, and he is bleeding profusely. Eventually Anderson has to leave him outside the Russian lander to fend for himself, defying his trust.

That made me think about the astronauts on the other Apollo missions. The guy up in the CSM could go nuts and do a trans-Earth injection while the guys in the LM are still exploring the Moon. Alternatively, Armstrong could have gotten mad at Buzz Aldrin over something and pushed him down the stairs at the end of the EVA and locked the hatch, then ascend to the CSM without him.

 

[boogabooga]

I think anybody that gets too mad could push coworkers down stairs...

Not committing murder shouldn't be too much to ask for a weeks time to have an experience that no other human beings have had at anytime before in history.

 

[orbitingpluto]

:huh:

I think given that most them were test pilots and quite a few were in the military, that the thought of seriously leaving a guy(s) behind wouldn't cross their minds. Leaving somebody due to tragic circumstances was possible, but an astronaut even thinking "Screw you guys, I'm going home!", thats just unbelievable. You have to ask, if NASA is spending so many billions on Apollo vehicles to ensure they are right for the job, why would they risk that and national prestige on an astronaut that might abandon a friend and blow the mission? All because Buzz stole Neil's cookie? Or Al Worden wants to cut the other guys out of the stamp profits? Maybe Cernan thought it funny to have Schmitt study the lunar surface firsthand for the rest of his life?

I had thought this was going to be about something like the small amount of space they had, or about bathroom arrangements back in the day.

 

[Codz]

I'm guessing the Psyche test NASA gives astronauts before allowing them in should be good enough to make sure they aren't homicidal...

 

[NovaSilisko]

I mean, if I organized the space program this sort of thing would be bound to happen, but they were professionals! They knew to check background information, train them well.

Besides, the astronauts got to know each other very well before the mission - precisely to prevent any angry situations that might arise.

 

[Ghostrider]

That goes for Gemini missions as well, who could guarantee your capsule driver wouldn't disconnect your umbilical and let you drift off while you made a burn away from you? Or "accidentally" fire the RCS your way?
Astronauts are a close bunch, they see each other beyond work hours and train together until they probably know the other guy better than most close relatives. They're a lot like soldiers, they don't crack easily under pressure. Instead, they're more likely to crack while not under pressure.
Being the CSM while the LM crew was on the surface must have been quite hard, however: not only you're horribly alone, but you may have to leave your buddies there to die if the ascent engine fails. Worse, you may have to leave them there while they're still alive. Glad it never happened, because tragedy aside, the poor guy would have been a wreck for life.

 

[Artlav]

More like trust that Neil won't drop them down on the moon, out-of-fuel or not.
Not to forget the safety for not being the guy-who-almost-landed-on-the-moon.

Trust that each one of them could do his job right.

Homicidally angry? Least of the concerns.

 

[C3PO]

Considering how dangerous any manned space travel is, this would be ridiculously far down the list.
There are thousands of real problems that could provide the crew with new flight suits with the wings on the back.

 

[Ark]

Eh, you trust complete strangers not to screw up and kill you when you drive to work every day. Trusting someone you've worked and trained with for years should be a no brainer.

 

[Izack]

Yeah, and when I cross the street I trust the guy in the truck not to floor it and pancake me. It's not just an astronaut thing, it's a human one, and a very small concern. Not everyone is out to kill someone. It's much more likely that Mr Truckdriver will run me over than an astronaut will snap on a mission and commit the most novel fratricide ever. :lol:

And besides, why would an astronaut decide to kill his bud then of all times, when a thousand eyes and ears are on him? There are a million relatively easy ways to kill a man and get away with it. :shifty:

Edit: :ninja:'d by Ark.

 

[Screamer7]

I may be wrong, but there was one guy that I did not trust. That was Virgil "Gus" Grissom.
Yes, I know he died a tragic death in the Apollo 1 simulation.
He screw up in the Project Mercury mission. He blew the hatch too soon.
And he get easily upset about something.
In the Apollo 1 simulation/training, they have serious difficulty to communicate with the ground controllers. He's comments and the way he pronounce it, made me think he could not really handle the situation very well.
Just my thought.

 

[FADEC]

I'm guessing the Psyche test NASA gives astronauts before allowing them in should be good enough to make sure they aren't homicidal...

There is never a 100% certainty for anything Well, except death.

Beside all those tests, I think there is also a natural awareness which tells us that in space one relies on each other. But the same person can become different on ground. And we have one famous example which made question NASAs tests: Lisa Nowak. At least she did not become homicidal during her mission.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I thought that Gus was cleared on the Mercury hatch?
And he wasn't the only one critical of Apollo 1, just one of the most vocal and high-vis. From what I've read there were many people who were unhappy with the command module prior to the cabin fire. I'll dig up some sources if needed.

 

[Cras]

I have seen it said on several occasions that had Apollo 1 not ended in tragedy, that Gus Grissom was for certain to be the first man to walk on the moon. So I am not ready to buy into the whole image of him being an irratic and untrustworthy fellow. He had the issue with the hatch on his Mercury flight, but that didn't stop him from getting to fly Gemini 3.

 

[C3PO]

I may be wrong, but there was one guy that I did not trust. That was Virgil "Gus" Grissom.

The other NASA astronauts trusted him, and I trust their judgement over any orbinaut's.

He screw up in the Project Mercury mission. He blew the hatch too soon.

Can you provide a source for that claim?

http://www.astronautix.com/flights/merrymr4.htmhttp://www.astronautix.com/flights/merrymr4.htm

In addition, Grissom would be the only astronaut who used the hatch without receiving a slight hand injury. As he later reminded Glenn, Schirra, and Cooper, this helped prove he had not touched his hatch plunger.

And he get easily upset about something.

I don't think you can claim that any space flight pioneer was "easily upset" :facepalm:
I have a feeling that several people on this forum fail to grasp how dangerous space flight really is.

 

[garyw]

I may be wrong, but there was one guy that I did not trust. That was Virgil "Gus" Grissom

You met him to be able to make that claim? Out of everyone in the space programme the one person who has had most public attention over issues of trust is Lisa Nowak yet she hasn't gotten a mention. There were also others with less screening and at least one suspected payload specalist whom the shuttle CDR considered so much of a risk that he requested an additional safety mechanism be added to the shuttle side hatch otherwise he wouldn't fly - his request was granted.

I thought that Gus was cleared on the Mercury hatch?
And he wasn't the only one critical of Apollo 1, just one of the most vocal and high-vis. From what I've read there were many people who were unhappy with the command module prior to the cabin fire. I'll dig up some sources if needed.

It took a while but Gus Grissom was cleared of the Mercury hatch incident. The movie 'The Right Stuff' is generally credited with making him look very bad for that incident and thats been accepted as being unfair.

To throw another name out there - what about Gene Cernan? He crashed a helicopter in training for his apollo mission because he was showing off - he still flew - would you trust him?

 

[Ghostrider]

Well, everybody trusted Jim Lovell even though he had a record for having stuff happening around him - he managed to short-circuit his own fighter plane after MacGyvering a map-reading lap in the cockpit.

 

[N_Molson]

And all those people spent free time playing Corvette races in the alleys of Cape Canaveral...

 

[NovaSilisko]

There were also others with less screening and at least one suspected payload specalist whom the shuttle CDR considered so much of a risk that he requested an additional safety mechanism be added to the shuttle side hatch otherwise he wouldn't fly - his request was granted.

I'd like to know more about this, actually. You've roused my curiosity.

 

[PeriapsisPrograde]

I wouldn't be worried that Bill and Bob Kerman would kill Jebediah. I would be even less worried with real people. :2cents: