Question What games are you playing?

N_Molson

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lol you quite wasted them, I feel sorry for that civilian ship, but obviously it wasn't right the place to be at this moment :ROFLMAO:

ASW planes are very dangerous, they drop a sonobuoy then a torpedo right above your head, then deep charges clusters for good measure. In shallow waters there is very little to do...
 

predattak

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lol you quite wasted them, I feel sorry for that civilian ship, but obviously it wasn't right the place to be at this momMent :ROFLMAO:

ASW planes are very dangerous, they drop a sonobuoy then a torpedo right above your head, then deep charges clusters for good measure. In shallow waters there is very little to do...
Funny story, the civilian ship was sunk by the russians. I fired a moss in that direction and some of the russian ships sent torpedoes to intercept it. It happened that the timing was bad for the civilian ship.. it was just in range of one of the torpedoes when the moss died.. so it aquired them and bam. But don't feel too sorry for them, they had a russian flag so who knows it could have been transporting war effort stuff under cover as it often happened in wars.

I 100% agree, the shallow water fight sucks big time especially when you don't have wire guided torpedoes.
In epic mod it's slightly better against helis and planes because they modeled the manpads that the subs have onboard so if you are in an emergency and the enemy ships are far away or dead you can surface and deal with them (hopefully) before they deal with you.:ROFLMAO:
 

Urwumpe

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Looks like bad day for the Russians now.
Funny story, the civilian ship was sunk by the russians. I fired a moss in that direction and some of the russian ships sent torpedoes to intercept it. It happened that the timing was bad for the civilian ship.. it was just in range of one of the torpedoes when the moss died.. so it aquired them and bam. But don't feel too sorry for them, they had a russian flag so who knows it could have been transporting war effort stuff under cover as it often happened in wars.

I 100% agree, the shallow water fight sucks big time especially when you don't have wire guided torpedoes.
In epic mod it's slightly better against helis and planes because they modeled the manpads that the subs have onboard so if you are in an emergency and the enemy ships are far away or dead you can surface and deal with them (hopefully) before they deal with you.:ROFLMAO:

Operating in shallow waters is where having torpedo tube-launched SAMs is getting really interesting.

 

N_Molson

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Operating in shallow waters is where having torpedo tube-launched SAMs is getting really interesting

I was thinking about it : if they can make torpedo-launched missiles, why not anti-air stuff ? So, it exists.
 

Urwumpe

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I was thinking about it : if they can make torpedo-launched missiles, why not anti-air stuff ? So, it exists.

Well, fire-control is hard, if you are submerged.

The German solution is wire guided, which is good enough against clueless helicopters, but would fail against aircraft.

But the German submarine designers are nasty anyway. One of their suggestions for the future was installing a remote operated machine gun on a retractable mast... Only a small step from there to installinf a stinger-like fire and forget missile there.
 

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About wargames, i'm training on Command Modern Operations. I've played a lot on Dangerous Waters (I've made my duty in the french Navy), but just gave a small try on Cold Waters. Seems good, but mods are needed as to play funny things. When i've tried it, i've sunk three ennemy ships and a sub. That's a lot ! CMO is way more complex and unforgiving, but the HUGE database, thousands of scenarios available, the different playable eras makes it very attractive. For now i've spent hours on... tutos ^^. The game is realy expensive (more than 100 €), but i think it's acceptable for such a good quality.

On a more tactical scale, but no naval combat, Combat Mission is my favorite one.

About air combat, of course Eagle Dynamics' Digital Combat Simulator is the big one, but my PC's specs are too weak, sadly.
 

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About air combat, of course Eagle Dynamics' Digital Combat Simulator is the big one, but my PC's specs are too weak, sadly.
might wanna check out Falcon BMS then, a 'mod' for Falcon 4.0 from 1998 (available on Steam and GoG); it's not as eye candy as DCS (which in turn means lower PC requirements) but it's systems simulation is unmatched, although unlike DCS with its modules BMS is hyperfocused on the F-16 just like its name suggests

it has... a bit of a learning curve but then again you're here so I doubt that's a problem for you :)
 

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Ho no no no, i'd rather find a simplified arcade game with magical tricks and easy AI ! ;)

Thanks for the advice, i'll have a look ASAP.
 

N_Molson

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Well, fire-control is hard, if you are submerged.

Yeah it seems the real big problem is target acquisition. Without a primary radar, there's no way to accurately point the missile in the right direction... Sure passive sonar can pick something like a Tu-95 flying right above the waves, but even there the detection range is limited.

Well maybe something like a wire-guided drone that could fit inside a missile or torpedo tube and "unfold" once in the air would work... like a small helicopter with a radar good enough to point a missile in the right way. But wire-guided would mean an EM source right above the sub, which would give it away...
 

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How about a modified IRST system? Maybe Mounted on a mast. Get the mast out of the water, lock the helicopter, fire the IR missile through the torpedo tube, keep track until missile is out of the water and locks it with it's onboard seeker, gtfo.
If jets can do it from miles and miles and from insane acute angles with those new missiles ..maybe something could be done for the subs.
 

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@predattak : as far as i know, as soon as your mast pops out of water... you're dead. It'll make a lovely shiny plot on ennemy's radar. And the noise of your missile will make the day of every enemy sub. The trajectory of your missile will give a very acurate clue of your position to surface ships and other planes, like the one flying just near your target. Risking a strategic submarine against a tactical target like a plane is not very wise, except for an interesting thought's exercise. Not speaking if there are nukes on your sub. I don't know how it is in Cold Waters, but in other sims, you can very carefuly deploy a floating towed antenna, and that's all. If there's an air threat, i'll evade, use the layer, go deep, quick, launch a lure and disapear. And if i'm in the middle of the ocean, it means this plane should come from an aircraft carrier. And that's a valuable target for a billions dollars submarine with 250 comrades aboard. There's a sentence i often hear on the ASM frigate where i've made my duty : "there are only two types of ships : the submarines and their targets". ;)
 

Urwumpe

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But wire-guided would mean an EM source right above the sub, which would give it away...

Oh, we solved this already. Optical fibers are already commonplace in such missiles and are also used for the current generation of German torpedos.
 

predattak

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@predattak : as far as i know, as soon as your mast pops out of water... you're dead. It'll make a lovely shiny plot on ennemy's radar. And the noise of your missile will make the day of every enemy sub. The trajectory of your missile will give a very acurate clue of your position to surface ships and other planes, like the one flying just near your target. Risking a strategic submarine against a tactical target like a plane is not very wise, except for an interesting thought's exercise. Not speaking if there are nukes on your sub. I don't know how it is in Cold Waters, but in other sims, you can very carefuly deploy a floating towed antenna, and that's all. If there's an air threat, i'll evade, use the layer, go deep, quick, launch a lure and disapear. And if i'm in the middle of the ocean, it means this plane should come from an aircraft carrier. And that's a valuable target for a billions dollars submarine with 250 comrades aboard. There's a sentence i often hear on the ASM frigate where i've made my duty : "there are only two types of ships : the submarines and their targets". ;)
Yeah just storming ideas, i was thinking at a maybe different solution than MGs on masts. But obviously all of these would be used in desperate situations.
In cold waters it's the same, you get your mast out .. they are on top of you and you are in deep sh*t.
Better to evade them and mark where they drop the listening devices so that you can change course to avoid triangulation.
 
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N_Molson

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That's it, the Beriev Be-12. Seems it also had / still has civilian duties like maritime rescue.
 
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