News Just another trip of the Russian North Fleet's Squadron

[SiberianTiger]

Maybe not the breaking news, but few days ago they've stopped by Venezuela coast at the port of La Guaira, the pics follow:

The squadron consists of the Pyotr Velikij (Peter the Great, Pedro El Grande in locals' togue) battlecruiser (Kirov class, to make it clear), the Admiral Chabanenko anti-submarine warfare ship, and two support ships: the Nicolay Chiker, an oceanic tug and the Ivan Bubnov, a tanker.

The squadron left Severomorks on Sept. 22 and had already visited ports: Akzas-Karaagacz in Turkey, Tripoli in Lybia and Toulon in France. While crossing the Atlantic ocean, an artillery exercise has been performed.

Please note that the information below came from an unverified source:

Most interesting in the entire trip's map, that gives the idea that it's not the full story yet, the planned squadron's path goes round the world and they gonna wetten their stems in all the four oceans' waters before coming home:

(the other tracks on the map belong to Fernando Magellan, Sir Francis Drake, Ivan Kruzenshtern, Faddey Bellingshausen and Fyodor Konykhov (an alone yacht round-the-world sailor).

My question is: do other navies perform similar round the world sailings often?

 

[RichWall]

My question is: do other navies perform similar round the world sailings often?

Not as of late. We have been trying to keep our Carbon Signature down.

Seriously though, Those are very impressive photos.

And all that humanitarian aid to Venezuela is nice. Their Leadership really could use some competent help.

 

[SiberianTiger]

And all that humanitarian aid to Venezuela is nice. Their Leadership really could use some competent help.

I believe that on the strategic level this is falling along the route of reinforcing the international oil producing countries cooperation, and Chavez's love for shiny shooting things is well known. I wouldn't call it a "gunboat diplomacy", however, like some of the Western commentators do, because it would imply putting a fear to somebody, and whom two warships traveling far off their usual pastures can really scare?

It's also useful for internal navy image upkeep through media reports, like saying "we are back to normal, we can really do things beyond polishing the brass". And, of course, this is much of a fun for sailors - and not only on the Russian side, but also for all those NATO sub and plane crews who've got an excellent opportunity to train their shadowing skills against a real opposition.

 

[Andy44]

Chavez wants to set himself up as the next Castro, the de facto leader of Latin American discontent with US foreign policy. Moscow is cashing in on that by supporting him and being a thorn in Washington's side.

About your question, the US did this with 16(!) battleships in 1907-1909 when Teddy Roosevelt sent the "Great White Fleet" around the world to let everyone know we were now to become the next imperialist a--holes on the planet.

And so the world turns...

 

[tblaxland]

(the other tracks on the map belong to Fernando Magellan, Sir Francis Drake, Ivan Kruzenshtern, Faddey Bellingshausen and Fyodor Konykhov (an alone yacht round-the-world sailor).

I am interested to know why they are going east-west instead of west-east. My understanding was that going west-east was faster due to prevailing ocean currents (note Konykhov's path, who was obviously interested in going fast).

Also, a minor nit on the map, didn't Magellan go through the Strait of Magellan?

 

[SiberianTiger]

About your question, the US did this with 16(!) battleships in 1907-1909 when Teddy Roosevelt sent the "Great White Fleet" around the world to let everyone know we were now to become the next imperialist a--holes on the planet.

And so the world turns...

Ah, thank you, now I can see why "The Great White Fleet" is still the term for American Navy in the Russian Navy slang!


-----Post Added-----

I am interested to know why they are going east-west instead of west-east. My understanding was that going west-east was faster due to prevailing ocean currents (note Konykhov's path, who was obviously interested in going fast).

Also, a minor nit on the map, didn't Magellan go through the Strait of Magellan?

Someone who drew the map really got it wrong. I hope at least the details of the Pete's track are right!

 

[tblaxland]

Someone who drew the map really got it wrong. I hope at least the details of the Pete's track are right!

I can't see any reason why the squadron wouldn't also go through the Strait. Sailing boats tend to go via Drake Passage instead because it is faster and there is more room to manoeuvre (provided you don't mind dodging the ice bergs!).

 

[SiberianTiger]

Darn... The different sources have it a different way. Today's article from the "Krasnaya Zvezda" ("The Red Star") newspaper (website link http://www.redstar.ru/2008/12/02_12/1_01.html) put it like the squadron will cross the Atlantic again and double the Cape of Good Hope to arrive in the Sea of Arabia for a joint naval exercise with Indian Navy in January.

I've really got no idea what's more true but the common sense tells me that the Red Star might know better than Kommersant... :unknown:

 

[Urwumpe]

Well, I would say, the passage through the straight is not easy for large warships, as well.

I remember that the German Navy had been able to get lost quite easily in the many channels and straights there in WW1, with one famous cruiser, the SMS Dresden, hiding for weeks before being forced to leave the bay.

 

[ar81]

I bet russian sailors must be having a nice sunny balm day in the coasts of Venezuela.
Most of Miss Universe winners came from there...
That must be an awesome picture.

If only Russia pushed Chavez so crime is set under control, and poverty is reduced...
This year half of Venezuelans were hit by crime.
Poverty reaches 30% and annual inflation reaches 27%.
Hospitals do not have even the basic supplies, so TV channels offer the public service of asking for donations to buy surgery implements that are supposed to be supplied by government. There are blackouts in the center and southern regions.
And all these problems happened since the times of oil prices on the rooftop.

 

[SiberianTiger]

I am interested to know why they are going east-west instead of west-east. My understanding was that going west-east was faster due to prevailing ocean currents (note Konykhov's path, who was obviously interested in going fast).

Considering the freshly revealed plan to go to the Indian Ocean first, it's possible that someone in the Russian Naval staff has agreed to your point.


-----Post Added-----

If only Russia pushed Chavez so crime is set under control, and poverty is reduced...
This year half of Venezuelans were hit by crime.
Poverty reaches 30% and annual inflation reaches 27%.

Uh oh. Who we need to push Putin so crime is set under control and poverty is reduced?.. So far Putin wasn't an easy dude to push on.

 

[Urwumpe]

Uh oh. Who we need to push Putin so crime is set under control and poverty is reduced?.. So far Putin wasn't an easy dude to push on.

I thought Putin is now minister-president of Russia (which is more than just a president), and not presidente of Venezuela.

 

[Notebook]

I thought the Russian Navy had done this before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinovi_Petrovich_Rozhdestvenski

Under Admiral Rozhestvensky's command, the Russian navy holds the record of sailing an all steel, coal powered battleship fleet over 18,000 miles one way, to engage an enemy in decisive battle, albeit one with a tragic result for Russia.

N.

 

[ar81]

Uh oh. Who we need to push Putin so crime is set under control and poverty is reduced?.. So far Putin wasn't an easy dude to push on.

I was not thinking about pushing Putin.
I was indeed thinking that poverty leads to unrest.
I see it from a humanitarian point of view, Venezuelans are good people who deserve nice things.

And from a strategic point of view, having less poverty in Venezuela would help Russians to keep the country economically stable. If Venezuelans become poor, Russian jobs would eventually flee to Venezuela in a globalized world, and that would add economic pressure to Russia. Trying to block that fleeing would make companies less competitive and more prompt to die. Politically and strategically speaking, stability has some advantages for Russia too.

To me, politics is a theatrical act to bring up public emotions, like a soccer game, or a circus. In the end I do not care who rules, I only care about welfare of people. Politics is a very changing thing, only 2000 years ago most of current countries did not even exist. Sometimes welfare of people is compatible with strategic interests of some politicians. I feel grim when I see the condition of citizens in Venezuela.

What I forgot is that Russia may not be a country too open to suggestions. US in the last years became not so open to suggestions, and people flamed me in some other forums when I warned about the crisis since 2003, when unemployment problems started to be very visible. Repression in US back then was not government enforced, but socially enforced throught social rejection and discrediting. Too bad for them.

Then, by 2006 trade and government deficits became horribly visible. Trade deficit is the source of currency leak, the source of liquidity problems, but they showed up as subprime mortgage crisis and problem spread across the economy. People in US still believe subprime mortgages caused al that.

In 2002 I had the idea of making a game about economy of a country and started to study it, just like I digged out the whereabouts of orbiter, and I found the gaps and failures of World bank and IMF models. It allowed to understand the big picture.

I contacted government of my country. They were open to suggestions. Since 2006 the direction of economic policy was foreseeing the picture I described, because the minister I contacted was economist, just like the president, so he could see if it was reasonable or not. This country might be small, but it is relatively strong in this crisis, and being open to feedback makes a big difference.

I believe that not being open to suggestions that improve the quality of life of people, is likely to cause poverty, and in a globalized world poverty could jeopardize the economies of world powers that ignore poverty. And if you see the case of US, you can see how important it is to reduce poverty for political or strategic interests.

If Russia is not open to criticism or suggestions, it could follow the same path of US. Not being open brought Mao to the failure of cultural revolution, as his cleansing stopped criticism and suggestions, and lack of feedback led to a big economic disaster. Today, in a globalized world the consequences of leaving poverty to grow could be far bigger for world powers.

Feedback may not be good for personal egos, but it is good for economy of world powers. The world has changed since cold war. And the big failure of US was to fall into rigid ideological positions and big egos, which did not allow to understand the new dynamics of post-cold war era and globalization. This where I put the source of US demise.

If Putin does or does not like feedback, that would be a problem for the strategic interests of Russia.
If Chavez does not like feedback, that's a problem for his regime. Chavez is doing wrong as he intends to close Globovision.
Lack of feedback could lead any of those into a rerun of US demise.
Stormy seas of economic turmoil and globalization do not care about ideologies or big egos, just like Earth does not care about flat earth theories. Big ego and rigid ideology is the perfect formula to crash the economic ship into the rocky cliffs of recession.

I do not like to see people living bad things. Luckily, people are the market and we live in a market economy. So with many poor the market becomes small, and countries pass a bad moment.

Some time ago I also sent some ideas to european entities about poverty and its effects too.
The lesson nowadays is that welfare of people is required to have a strong economy, which is required by politicians to have an easy life and play games in their spare time.

 

[SiberianTiger]

I thought the Russian Navy had done this before:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinovi_Petrovich_Rozhdestvenski

N.

There was a more successful attempt when K-116 and K-133 submarines made a round the world trip submerged (Arctic - Atlantic - Pacific), ending their trip at Kamchatka.


-----Post Added-----

I contacted government of my country. They were open to suggestions. Since 2006 the direction of economic policy was foreseeing the picture I described, because the minister I contacted was economist, just like the president, so he could see if it was reasonable or not. This country might be small, but it is relatively strong in this crisis, and being open to feedback makes a big difference.

Ar81, look, I am very happy that you've got some response from your minister when you contacted one. Would you mind sharing what your suggestion was and what his words of response were, in turn?

 

[Andy44]

Back in Soviet Union, world sails around you!

 

[RangerPL]

Is that the Kirov-class missile battlecruiser? Those ships are epic.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Is that the Kirov-class missile battlecruiser? Those ships are epic.

Yes, it is. The only one in operation.


-----Post Added-----


A joint naval exercise with Venezuelan Navy has been done the recent days in the Carribean Sea waters.

 

[ar81]

The "Cold War 2: Edge of Chaos" videogame goes on.

US hits target with missile test
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7768642.stm

 

[SiberianTiger]

Nicaragua Pacific: Ortega says Russian Navy to visit despite political problems

http://en.rian.ru/world/20081212/118820634.html

Nicaragua's president said on Friday that despite a political deadlock in the country Russian warships will be able to visit the Central American state.

Under Nicaraguan law, the National Assembly must give permission for visits and military exercises involving foreign states in the Latin America country. The Nicaraguan opposition has prevented parliament from working since November over claims of vote rigging in local elections.



"I am performing my duties, and we are preparing to meet the Russian warships, which will enter Nicaragua's territorial waters in the next few hours," Daniel Ortega told military officials.

The Russian Udaloy class destroyer made a round trip through the Panama Canal on December 6, becoming the first Russian or Soviet warship to enter the waterway since World War II.