News ATR-72 turboprop plane crash in Taipei

[Keatah]

As previously said, a computer can size up what's going on much faster because of extensive sensors. Give the pilot (yet another) button to press that can engage an emergency response system (yet to be defined).

Or have the systems display a projected course of action, and if the pilot gives the ok, go ahead and let the new action happen. Much like the engine-out asymmetrical thrust compensation. They are very good on commercial twinjets. And and absolute necessity on the now defunct SR-71. Expand upon those capabilities to other situations.

It would seem AI in aircraft is woefully underutilized.

 

[Urwumpe]

Um, no. Do you know of Air France Flight 296? While it might've had its share of "pilot error"-based causes, the computer was a significant cause of the accident as well.

No, the computer wasn't. While "experts" claimed so and also claimed that the FDRs had been replaced to hide the true cause, the real cause had been plain "controlled flight into disaster" by the pilots, who flow at 30 ft instead of 33 meters AGL.

The official report from BEA concluded that the probable cause of the accident was a combination of the following:

• Very low flyover height, lower than surrounding obstacles;
• Speed very slow and reducing to reach maximum possible angle of attack;
• Engines speed at flight idle; and
• Late application of go-around power.

Furthermore, the bureau concluded that if the descent below 100 feet was not deliberate, it may have resulted from a failure by the crew to take proper account of the visual and aural information available to them regarding the elevation "above ground level" (AGL) of the aircraft.

What should the computer have done there? Do magic?



Especially, this one is pretty convincing:



http://www.crashdehabsheim.net/Rapport Airbus.pdf

The primary error by the pilot was simply already that the crew failed to locate the airfield for the fly-over and started their descent 5.5 NM late and at flight idle thrust.

 

[ISProgram]

Okay, can't argue with any of that. When I said the computer was a major cause of the accident, I was wrong.

I should've said that it contributed; its response to the pilot's attempt to climb out before they hit the forest. The computer went into alpha protection and as such didn't response to the commands to pull up.

 

[Urwumpe]

I should've said that it contributed; its response to the pilot's attempt to climb out before they hit the forest. The computer went into alpha protection and as such didn't response to the commands to pull up.

And? If the pilot managed to pull up without alpha protection, the aircraft would have stalled and crashed as well under such flight conditions. The problem remains that the pilot maneuvered the plane into a corner of the envelope, where errors are fatal.

 

[steph]

I need to do a bit of reading on the protection and autopilat levels of these aircraft. After all, it's not like they increase the stall margins or anything. It's more like they prevent you from doing some errors. Theoretically even without the protection levels, the aircraft would fly "normally", as in not fly-by-wire.

 

[Urwumpe]

I think the answer can really be in the engine controls of the plane ... turboprops are different to jets.

 

[Urwumpe]

A video from another perspective, the plane had really been stalled for quite a while before the crash:

Reported sequence of events:

10:51:13 — Crew receives take-off clearance
10:52:34 — Tower asks crew to contact Taipei Departure
10:52:38 — Right engine failure alert; master warning sounds for 3s
10:53:04 — Crew reduces power to the left engine
10:53:12–18 — Stall warning sounds
10:53:24 — Crew cuts power to the left engine
10:53:34 — Crew declares emergency: "Mayday, mayday, engine flameout"
10:54:09 — Crew calls for restarting the left engine multiple times
10:54:20 — Left engine is restarted
10:54:34 — Master warning sounds again
10:54:35 — An unidentified sound is heard
10:54:36 — Recordings end

Possible that they reduced power to the left engine because of the yawing moment, but why did they shut it down eventually?