Heavy fighting in South Ossetia.

[SiberianTiger]

These missiles are not standard on regiment level, they are part of bigger units (division level). And sure not suited for peace-keeping.

So what do you think is suited for a peace-keeping? I think that a peace-keeping force should not pose a sacrifical lamb for any of the sides it's intended to fend away, no? Now, think about >100 tanks, MLRS's, attack planes and other stuff Georgians gathered prior to their attack...

 

[Jarvitä]

That's true, and it's also a fact that the tension was high long before this conflict even if there was no direct combat earlier, so it's no wonder really that Russia had reserves behind the border and in Ossetia in case something like this happened. Can't blame them with a neighbour like that.

PS

 

[SiberianTiger]

That's true, and it's also a fact that the tension was high long before this conflict even if there was no direct combat earlier, so it's no wonder really that Russia had reserves behind the border and in Ossetia in case something like this happened. Can't blame them with a neighbour like that.

Don't think the reserves were there 'just in case', however. This just means that the Russian Army managed not to get caught with their pants down, that's all.

 

[Urwumpe]

So what do you think is suited for a peace-keeping? I think that a peace-keeping force should not pose a sacrifical lamb for any of the sides it's intended to fend away, no? Now, think about >100 tanks, MLRS's, attack planes and other stuff Georgians gathered prior to their attack...

I think a peace-keeping force does not have the structure to invade and occupy a country - it has other duties. Also a peace-keeping force should not support the South Ossetians to attack the Georgians, this is more suitable if you actually want to provoke Georgian troops. Firing at least five SS-21 on Gori is also no peace-keeping. That is a strategic bombing, similar to Russian actions in Chechnya, where they fired a SS-21 on a populated market place, because "It was used for trading arms".

And now, your army threatens Poland... :dry: When will the peace-keeping force arrive there?

 

[Linguofreak]

To describe it better, most of the people in Russia believe that the government did the right thing when then pressed in with quick military response. Also, very few have doubts about Georgians having attacked first.

There's absolutely no doubt that the Georgians attacked first, but they attacked South Ossetia, not Russia, and South Ossetia is a separitist enclave in their own territory. If our friends Vlad Jr. and Dmitry weren't looking for a fight in the first place, they would have let it remain an internal Georgian matter. But they were just looking for an excuse to attack Georgia, and Georgia invading South Ossetia was as good an excuse as any.

Georgia may have been the first to resort to military action, but Russia was the first to actually bring military action across the border.

 

[tl8]

Come on Guys, no fighting about who started what. Remember that we have members on both sides of the conflict

 

[Urwumpe]

When forces that are hostile to socialism try to turn the development of some socialist country towards capitalism, it becomes not only a problem of the country concerned, but a common problem and concern of all socialist countries.

 

[tomek]

And now, your army threatens Poland... :dry: When will the peace-keeping force arrive there?

Poland isn't threatened, as far as I know. It is just being pointed out, perhaps redundantly, that USA facilities on its territory will be among the first targets if a conflict with USA develops.

Georgia may have been the first to resort to military action, but Russia was the first to actually bring military action across the border.

Russia had ten thousand citizens living in the region. Were they to be left to their own means? 9/11 justified a full-scale invasion of Iraq, at least for USA. Russian civilian losses in Tskhinvali could have been 3 times more than US losses at 9/11. Were Russians supposed to wait for it to happen, and then invade Georgia full-scale? I doubt that would be a better scenario. Or did they have to just sit there and do nothing, simply because their citizens and peacekeeper troops weren't being killed on Russian soil? Iraq's hypothetical WMDs weren't located on US soil either...

 

[SiberianTiger]

There is a much more relevant summing up:

Luke 6:31
"Just as you want others to do for you, do the same for them."
:facts:

 

[tomek]

Does not always work, unfortunately.

 

[Urwumpe]

Poland isn't threatened, as far as I know. It is just being pointed out, perhaps redundantly, that USA facilities on its territory will be among the first targets if a conflict with USA develops.

There are also the vague Medvedev statements about threatening Russian citizens lately, during his speech in Kursk.

The current Russia definition of citizenship is pretty close to the Brezhnev doctrine, as Russia regards itself formal successor of the USSR and thus believe in having the right to grant Russian citizenship to all former USSR citizens - if they want to... and you can sure find some "volunteers". After all, the Brezhnev doctrine was also the justification of the soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

 

[SiberianTiger]

POWs are exchanged

http://top.rbc.ru/politics/19/08/2008/224575.shtml

Russia and Georgia have exchanged prisoners of war for the first time. This information has been confirmed to RBC by the Ministry of Defence.

According to the data we have, Russia releases to Georgia 15 prisoners of war, some of whom are wounded and were delivered by transport helicopters. On their way back are 5 Russian servicemen, including two pilots of the airplanes shot down during the days of conflict.

The place of the POW exchange has become the village of Igoyeti located in-between Gori and Tbilisi.

 

[simonpro]

There's absolutely no doubt that the Georgians attacked first, but they attacked South Ossetia, not Russia, and South Ossetia is a separitist enclave in their own territory. If our friends Vlad Jr. and Dmitry weren't looking for a fight in the first place, they would have let it remain an internal Georgian matter. But they were just looking for an excuse to attack Georgia, and Georgia invading South Ossetia was as good an excuse as any.

I disagree. While the Russian government was always looking to enter Georgia, this is hardly "any excuse" to do so. They were protecting people who, under international law, are their own citizens. I imagine America would do the same if Canada, for some reason, started trying to shoot at US citizens living north of the border.

Georgia may have been the first to resort to military action, but Russia was the first to actually bring military action across the border.

Only if you do not accept the results of the held elections a few years ago, in which South Ossetians overwhelmingly voted that they wished to be separate from Georgia, something they've declared on multiple occasions.
Unfortunately no-one in the West appears to notice that.

 

[Xantcha]

There are also the vague Medvedev statements about threatening Russian citizens lately, during his speech in Kursk.

The current Russia definition of citizenship is pretty close to the Brezhnev doctrine, as Russia regards itself formal successor of the USSR and thus believe in having the right to grant Russian citizenship to all former USSR citizens - if they want to... and you can sure find some "volunteers". After all, the Brezhnev doctrine was also the justification of the soviet invasion of Afghanistan...

What are you trying to prove, Urwumpe? That policy of helping allies is something to be ashamed of (since it is related to USSR doctrine) and thus is inherently evil?
But, ahem.. despite this doctrine USSR betrayed even more friends than CIA did

 

[tl8]

Thread Reopened

A reminder that people who post new threads about this topic risk receiving infractions

Please don't quote anyone above my post

Just tell it like it is

 

[Notebook]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7579506.stm

Anyone know what type USS McFaul is?

Edit:- A destroyer it seems

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5javTpOwMwm7v91lO-ZnmqHvsKNVg

N.

 

[simonpro]

Guided missile destroyer.

 

[Notebook]

Apoligies for bringing this thread up again, but this seems to me quite important:-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7583486.stm

France has tried to broker a peace, but the UK is now wandering off on a tangent, and looks like provoking trouble rather than easing the situation.

French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called Russia an "international outlaw" and said the real worry was not a new Cold War but a "hot" one, suggesting that another Russian objective might now be Ukraine's mainly Russian-speaking territory of Crimea.

N.

 

[Notebook]

Well, some time ago, may help:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-19808911

N.