Speaking of parachutes... why do you get a life-jacket on a plane?

[Turbinator]

Why is it that you get a life-jacket on a plane?
That is like getting a parachute on a ship.

How many lives would have been saved if people where given parachutes on planes, instead of life-jackets?


How many lives did life-jackets save on planes?

How many lives did parachutes save on ships?

:facepalm:

Why aren't parachutes given out on ships?


This guys has got the right idea... I guess.

 

[Urwumpe]

Actually the life-vests saved likely more people as parachutes would help - in 99% of all cases, you can't use parachutes, even if you would be trained in using them. Without parachute training, you would be pretty dead despite the parachutes. Life-vests are useful everytime you ditch or exceed the runway into the water.

 

[Ark]

Explain to me how you're supposed to dig a parachute out from under your seat, properly strap it on, open an exit, and jump out when you're on a plane that's tumbling out of control and filled with screaming people trying to do the exact same thing as you?

 

[N_Molson]

Yeah, even with a military-level training, there wouldn't probably be enough time to allow everyone to bail out. In particular if the plane has a strong pitch.

(Anyway, bailing out from a jet without an ejection seat is almost suicidal).

 

[Turbinator]

Planes, as a rule, usually do not instantly catastrophically fail.

Here are some examples from memory, where a parachute would have saved lives:
Japan Airlines Flight 123 - 520 souls
Air Canada Flight 797 - 23 souls
Swissair Flight 111 - 229 souls
Air France Flight 4590 - 109 souls
That is 881 souls, in 4 examples

 

[N_Molson]

Even if the plane flies with wings leveled, jumping at Mach 0.8 is more than dangerous, you'd probably get critically injured by the door frame or the stabilizers. Some aircrafts even have reactors at the rear of the fuselage.

 

[blixel]

Having logged just over 100 jumps (back when I was still healthy), I can tell you that you can't just simply jump out of a jumbo jet and parachute safely to the ground.

The maximum altitude for recreational skydiving is about 15,000 feet MSL. (4,572 meters.) Once you are above ~12,500 feet MSL, the pilot has a very limited amount of time to get the jumpers over the DZ. If he takes too long, he has to descend so the jumpers do not suffer from altitude sickness.

If you want to jump from an altitude of, say, 30,000' (9,144 meters), you have to spend about an hour breathing pure oxygen. (Otherwise you'll get the “bends” like you can get when scuba diving.) You have to jump with oxygen and full face protection so your eyes don't freeze. (At 30,000 feet, the temperature is somewhere around 25 to 35 degrees below zero.)

There is also the problem of speed. An airliner travels so fast that jumping out of the plane would be like hitting a brick wall.

Recreational skydiving is usually done out of a small single engine Cessna, or a turboprop Cessna Caravan. In either case, once the pilot is over the DZ, he throttles the engine back so the jumpers have a smoother exit.

There is a yearly event in Quincy, IL where you can jump out of a jumbo jet - but they are still jumping from a normal skydiving altitude, and the jet is not traveling at normal cruising speed. However, despite traveling relatively slow (for a jumbo jet), the jumpers still SLOW DOWN to terminal velocity after jumping.

 

[Ark]

Do the math. How long does it take to get 520 people out of a handful of exits? How long do you have to stand in line in the aisle to get off a plane when things are going well, and people aren't in a panic? In a situation bad enough to warrant evacuation, is the plane going to stay in the air long enough for that process to be completed?

Beside the point, parachutes have weight limits. Every parachute you put on that plane has to be capable of supporting the heaviest passenger that will be on board, which means every parachute has to be capable of supporting this guy:

Speaking of which, how long is it going to take to get that guy out the door so everyone else can evacuate? Who is in charge of shoving people out who are too scared to jump themselves? What happens when you pop the escape hatch and get soaked by burning jet fuel coming off the wing?

IMO just bring me another drink and tell the pilot to make sure he hits something solid, because I don't wanna walk away from this [expletive deleted]. :lol:

 

[natey787]

Air France Flight 4590? That Concorde was in the air for less than thirty seconds.

 

[APDAF]

Ark, it takes 90 seconds to clear a plane.
As for the fat man leave him untill last.

 

[Turbinator]

Do the math. How long does it take to get 520 people out of a handful of exits?

Air France Flight 358, 1:53 UTC 2 August 2005, 265 souls. 168 adult males, 118 adult females, 8 children and 3 infants. 3 wheelchair passengers and 1 blind passenger. Evacuated under 90 seconds, after running off the runway and crashing in to a ravine, while on fire. Everyone lived.

This is all that was left of the plane:

 

[Ark]

Ark, it takes 90 seconds to clear a plane.
As for the fat man leave him untill last.

Right. 90 seconds for everyone to get into their parachutes, get the doors open, queue up, and jump. Out of a plane that's flying at cruising speed, at high altitude, possibly out of control, and possibly on fire.

The B-17 crewmen in WW2 wore their parachutes at all times and still went down with their planes by the thousands. And they were in unpressurized aircraft with plenty of convenient openings to hurl themselves out of.

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

Air France Flight 358, 1:53 UTC 2 August 2005, 265 souls. 168 adult males, 118 adult females, 8 children and 3 infants. 3 wheelchair passengers and 1 blind passenger. Evacuated under 90 seconds, after running off the runway and crashing in to a ravine, while on fire. Everyone lived.

This is all that was left of the plane:

Perhaps I stand partially corrected. Motivated people are capable of getting the hell out of the burning plane rather quickly. But I still feel it's an entirely different game when you're actually in the air.

 

[Turbinator]

Airbus A380, 873 souls, evacuated under 90 seconds:

 

[T.Neo]

I thought the whole point of safety with airliners was to ensure to the greatest degree possible that a failure would be heavily unlikely...

 

[Ark]

I thought the whole point of safety with airliners was to ensure to the greatest degree possible that a failure would be heavily unlikely...

I agree with that. Good design, redundant systems, up-to-date maintenance and construction that isn't shoddy should prevent many of the disasters that befall commercial aviation. Statistically speaking air travel is still safer than driving your car to work and back.

It's good to develop procedures for when the unlikely does happen, but are people really willing to eat yet another rate hike on their tickets just to pay for parachutes under the seats they'll probably never get the chance to use? Airlines sure as hell aren't going to shell out for parachutes, it's in their best interest for everybody to die in the crash so nobody's left alive to sue.

 

[fireballs619]

Airbus A380, 873 souls, evacuated under 90 seconds:

YouTube - ‪A380 EMERGENCY EVACUATION TEST‬‏

This is in a controlled test, where the people know they are not in any real danger. Add in the panic that would ensue if the plane malfunctions at cruising altitude, the turmoil of people trying to hop out first, as well as difficulty moving due to steep incline of the plane, and you will have an accurate time estimation. Not to mention the fear and reluctance that some people who have never skydived will encounter when they reach the door and see the 30,000 feet of nothing below them. How will people know when/how to pull the chute? Also, what of the elderly and young/infants?

 

[Turbinator]

We all saw people jumping out of the World Trade Centre windows, given an option of a parachute you never used before, or staying in the plane, it is quite clear what the majority of the people would choose.


At least this is a step in the right direction:

.

 

[T.Neo]

Let's see, ride to the ground and hope the plane ditches in a manner that allows a possibility for escape, or get the side of my face plastered into the door-frame at mach 0.8?

The former sounds better to me, and that's saying a lot. I'd rather try to enact design changes to a plane so that if it did go down, a crash, ditching, or crash-landing would be more survivable.

 

[fireballs619]

We all saw people jumping out of the World Trade Centre windows, given an option of a parachute you never used before, or staying in the plane, it is quite clear what the majority of the people would choose.

It was not a large majority of the people in those towers who jumped out. Assuming 200 people in total jumped, out of the 3000 casualties or so, thats little over 6%. Perhaps, with a larger assumption, we can reach 7% or 8%, but it would be stretching the truth to go much further. 6% of a A380 flight is 31 people, hardly the majority of 525 or so passengers.

 

[blixel]

Yesterday we humans were a viral infection. And today you seem so concerned about saving our 'souls' ... why the radical change of heart in the last 24 hours?