Star Wars Force Awakens [Spoiler thread]

Loru

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You can talk spoilers here: Pleas keep them out from the other thread.
 

Thunder Chicken

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Whew! I was wondering where to put this where it wouldn't cause trouble:

7xc3hat.jpg


---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:56 PM ----------

Well, I've been spoiled. I haven't seen the movie, but it just sounds like some plot twisting to enable sequels. Darth Vader was killed off in the sequels, so some new bad guy had to get introduced.

Meh.

I think I'll just stick with Episodes IV-VI, thanks.
 

Kyle

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I thought it was excellent, far beyond the prequel trilogy.
 

dbeachy1

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Just got back from seeing it in 3D. I don't say this very often, but it was a 10/10 for me -- I loved it! :thumbup: I thought the whole cast did a great job, but especially Daisy Ridley (Rey) and John Boyega (Finn). And of course Harrison Ford was epic!

Some favorite things of mine from the movie:

  • First and foremost, I love that we finally have a female Jedi (in training) as a main character -- it's long overdue (notwithstanding Ahsoka from Clone Wars, of course). Based on the trailier I assumed that Finn had Force affinity but that Rey did not. I was happily surprised to discover that was not the case. :)

  • Toward the end of the lightsaber duel between Kylo Ren and Rey, Kylo has Rey pinned and you can see the fear on her face. Kylo thinks he's won and so he wants to turn her, so he says he can train her in the Force. However, this (unfortunately for Kylo) reminds Rey to focus on her Force powers and not to give in to fear -- at which point you can see her become calm and centered, and you know the rest. :) Daisy Ridley pulled that scene off perfectly. It's my favorite scene in the movie.

  • When Kylo Ren was handing his lightsaber to Han on the walkway I had a feeling that he truly was conflicted: part of him wanted to return home with Han and another part of him wanted to embrace his darkness fully. What I can't figure out is whether Kylo Ren was a) intending to kill Han the whole time but was then conflicted about it (but then went through with killing Han anyway), or b) was truly intending to go home with Han initially but then just couldn't bring himself to do it and changed his mind (which is why he tried to hand Han his lightsaber but then couldn't bring himself to let go of it). It felt to me like it was the latter, but I'm interested in hearing what you guys think about it. In any case, as much as I'll miss Han, I loved this scene!

  • I loved the very last scene -- neither character said a word, Rey just held out Anakin's long-lost lightsaber to hand it to Luke. The scene was so much more powerful (to me, at least) with no dialogue at all. Now Luke will train Rey to be a Jedi.

  • The scene where Rey first picked up Anakin's lightsaber and she had all those Force visions was cool.

  • I thought the music by John Williams was perfect -- it had some familiar bars in just the right places in the movie.

  • I liked that the special effects used more models and less CGI than other triple-A movies. I read this was to give it more of an "original Star Wars" feel. I thought it worked well.

  • BB-8 was cool! Move over, R2-D2. :p

To sum up, I loved the script, loved the acting, and felt like I connected to each character.

One question: does Finn have Force affinity as well? Will he also become a Jedi? He did seem to have some innate skills with a lightsaber (although not as good as Rey, of course), but it wasn't clear whether he has Force affinity or not.

P.S. I'm in love with Rey -- she's a bad-ass. :love:
 

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So I clicked on this thread by accident...biiiiiiig mistake.
 

Hielor

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So I had this nice long post written up and then apparently my phone decided I wasn't logged in anymore so it got lost.

I was kinda disappointed. Seemed to be basically the same plot as Ep IV and the number of scene parallels got old quick. The number of absurd coincidences got...absurd. JJ Abrams still has no idea how big space is.

Basically seemed to be gratuitous fan service.

---------- Post added at 01:28 ---------- Previous post was at 01:27 ----------

I'll be happy to expand on any of those complaints when I'm at a real keyboard tomorrow, if anyone's interested.
 

fred18

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I kind of agree with much of the things said above.

My opinion is that in the film there are things that I liked a lot and things that I didn't like much.

What I liked a lot:

- a new young girl as the future jedi hero, that's briliant, original and breaks with the past
- the killing of han solo was sad, but was unexpected, surprise is welcome!
- the end of the movie with the meeting between Rey and Luke is powerful and made me feel curious about the next movies
- the moment in which kylo ren goes crazy is very likely and I was missing this in the past movies: if the dark side enlights the bad feelings like hate, anger etc why nobody from the dark side ever got angry ? :)
- First half of the movie is also very funny
- Special FX done by models gives it a bit of vintage feeling, that I liked, since CGI is "too easy" nowadays
- BB8 is very nice!

what I didn't like much:
- plot is too much similar to the original trilogy, it seemed a remake on some parts. A bigger Death Star with shields to be deactivated on ground (see Endor in Return of the jedi) and that if you hit in the right point will collapse... already seen in two out of three movies of the original trilogy. Also Rey was born on a desert planet with no family etc... it was jakku and not tatooine but very much the same.... Even the bar scene felt exactly the same of the original movie.
- The articulated plot of episode 3 (which is still my favourite) is now again simplified a lot, and we loose the reason for many things that happened
- when kylo ren takes off his helmet he stops to scare anybody... Vader became a legend also because you could not see his face up to the very end of the return of the jedi. Here we learned too early that he is the son of han and leia, and I do not see why he wears an helmet...
- We have seen how difficult is to learn the power of the force and to use it properly, how much training you need to have etc, it was a parallel also to religion sometimes ("i find your lack of faith disturbing"), with rey it felt more like magic power, she didn't have to train at all to use mind tricks and fight (and win with a strong guy!!!) with a lightsaber... that is not right, it's not how it should be.


In the end anyway it's the first movie of a new trilogy. In the past the first movie of the other two trilogies was always the worst (at least in my opinion) so let's see the next movies. I don't feel like saying this is a bad movie because it is not! It's nice and it's ok, let's see the next ones to judge!

cheers
Fred
 

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THIRD Death Star and Death Star assault in FOUR movies with these characters. Absurd.
More a reboot than a sequel.
Rey that in twenty minutes evolves as Luke (not the last moron of the galaxy) in three movies and not without problems and drawbacks. Hilarious.
Kylo Ren at the beginning seemed to work well. But, at last, it turns out to a crybaby and a mere Vader cosplayer...

Great, great disappointment.
At least Lucas told a different story in the prequels.
 
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fred18

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oh and there's another point: a galaxy is so big that you don't see rays coming from the planet in one system to another planet in another system in the sky like that... that was the low point to me.
 

K_Jameson

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It is an Abrams trademark: in "Star Trek" (2009), Spock can see with the naked eye the destruction of Vulcan from Delta Vega, that, if the geography of the Trek Galaxy is not changed, is thousands of light years away...

latest
 
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Artlav

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I liked it. Not particularily original as the story goes, extra stupid physics (seeing across the galaxy), but that's about it as the bad things go.
Not sure why Professor Snape was in the movie, but eh.
 

dbeachy1

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It looked to me like the moons & planets destroyed were all in the same star system as Han/Rey/BB-8 -- the First Order destroyed the other inhabited worlds in that system right before they landed troops on the remaining world to try and capture BB-8 et. al. They did it to make a statement that systems harboring enemies of the First Order would be destroyed. That's just my impression, though -- I don't recall hearing the name of their target system.

The number of absurd coincidences got...absurd. JJ Abrams still has no idea how big space is.

<Obi-Wan Kenobi>In my experience there is no such thing as luck.</Obi-Wan Kenobi>

At least, that's how I see it. :)
 

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Reserving this for my spot to review the movie (i've tried to review a few times now but my computer is being dumb)
 

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I learned what Starkiller Base was a couple of months ago, so I was expecting some sort of a rehash of Episode IV with some twists.

I had a very, very, very slight expectation about a certain character being the son of Leia (a Skywalker) and Han Solo.

And once I saw Han wanting to go talk to his son, I knew what was coming.

Still, I enjoyed it very much.
 
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kamaz

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Even Spaceballs is enjoyable.

I disagree.

SpaceBalls is genius. Better than the original. Because it does not attempt to be something it is not.
 

Zatnikitelman

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WOW! INCREDIBLE MOVIE! To me, this was one of those movies where you wonder when it's going to end, not because you want it to end, but because you logically know it's only two hours long and it feels like a LOT has happened.

So on to some points here.

Yes, there were some contrivances. I guess the biggest is Han and Chewie just happening to be in orbit of Jakku while the First Order was hunting Poe. As for this one eh, coincidences happen, life is full of them. Some of us believe in divine intervention for some of them in our lives. Now if Rey really is a Skywalker then her finding him could be explained as the will of the force, or even just the will of Luke, subtly influencing events through the force from light-years away.

Rey running into Finn/Han/Chewie. Yes, she's on a planet-sized battlestation (that's no planet?...Except it actually is!) so the chances of her running into them are tiny. I admit that, but it was fun anyways.

Kylo Ren. I agree, removing his mask to reveal...a kid with big hair...might be a mistake, but at least he's not a whiny kid named Anakin... As another poster said, he's not so menacing now, and why the mask to begin with?
Also, he is irredeemable to me. You kill Luke, fine. Leia, fine. C-3PO, fine. But kill Han Solo, Chewie or R2-D2? I WILL DANCE ON YOUR GRAVE AFTER PERSONALLY ENDING YOU, THEN DIGGING IT MYSELF, THEN DUMPING YOU IN THERE! (note: the previous is intended strictly from an in-universe perspective. I intend no harm whatsoever to any actors, writers or directors and in fact congratulate them on this very gutsy creative decision to kill off such a well-liked and dynamic character, and how they accomplished that).
I think I'm going with a third option on Dbeachy1's theories on Kylo killing Han. It's possible that there never was any conflict, and he simply needed to appear as if there was in order to let Han lower his defenses.

Starkiller base was at least a little over the top. Aside from Abrams's "space not so big" thing he seems to have problems with, it also feels like a contrivance that they even knew about it. However, it doesn't seem like a logical next-step from the two Death Stars. A more logical step would be a more compact superlaser on something more resembling a traditional starship, I believe some expanded universe material explored this angle. Basically something that doesn't lumber along like the Death Stars, but something quicker, and more able to "sneak up" on you. The star-fuel thing could still even be a part of it.

An interesting thing I noticed is that the First Order seems to utilize the same recruitment techniques the prequel Jedi did, they take kids and raise them in their ways. It's an interesting parallel, that I don't think is just writer-coincidence, that I hope is explored.

A friend that watched this with me also wondered if this might be an opening for a return of the Calrissian! It would be interesting, though maybe add one-too-many contrivances on top of what we already have, and it would be harder to handwave it away with the force since Lando wasn't particularly force-sensitive that I know of.

I do wish there had been just a touch more galactic politics. Not the over the top let's-open-our-movie-with-a-conference-on-trade-taxation thing Phantom Menace did, but just a better explanation of what the Republic is doing and why the entire Republic isn't involved in dealing with a very real threat. It felt too much like the Rebellion era again which the movie made clear we've moved past. I'm wondering if this isn't a subtle play on the U.S. vs. ISIS (yes, I know getting close to Basement territory, may open a thread there for deeper discussion on this point). Where a threat is ignored in all meaningful ways until they do something drastic. I'm not as sold on that theory as I was on Revenge of the Sith being a swipe at Bush, but I can't help but draw the parallels.

Ok, I've poked at this movie enough. Let's get to what I really liked. As I opened with, the movie was satisfyingly full. Most of the slow moments were just slow enough at just the right moments, the action was well-paced and flowed naturally from the plot rather than being forced. The music was second to none.

I love Rey and Finn, and think they along with Poe can easily be the next Luke-Leia-Han trio. Each filling different roles of course, but the same kind of tight bond and camaraderie that drove the three from midway through 4 through the end of 6.

Han Solo. Yes, it stung. But if it had to be done, it was done well, and the emotion in Chewie, Rey, Finn and Leia was incredible! That hug between Leia and Rey was intense. The end scene with Luke was similarly intense as someone above says. The emotion all over was well-done.

The Millennium Falcon. 'nuff said. Ok, not really, I do have something to say. Such an incredible re-introduction, definite call back to ANH with Luke calling it a piece of junk, then immediately outclassing everything thrown against it. It will be bittersweet to see on subsequent watchings, but as I said months ago: "Chewie, we're home" just kinda says it all.

The lightsaber combat. It struck a good chord between the slow "fencing" of the original trilogy, and the CGI-nuts stunts of the prequels. Ok, some of that will change if Rey and/or Finn receive "formal" training, but Kylo presumably had training.

I'm sure there's more, but that's all I can remember. I may try and see the Imax version later this week and be able to pick out details I might have missed. I can't think of any other movie that's made me want to immediately re-watch it, so that right there says a lot.

[EDIT]
WOW, ok, this is another reason I know this movie is awesome. I completely neglected two areas which usually stand out to me most: humor and visuals.

The humor was perfect. Han's lines were exactly what you would expect from someone having gone through all he apparently did.

The visuals. My gosh they were georgeous! I think the scene that did it for me was the TIE fighters silhouetted against the sun. It reminded me strongly of some scenes from Top Gun, which was decidedly not SciFi and helped bring the "realism" up a good few notches.

Something else that occurred to me after I hit post. Why Ben? The name I mean. Ben Kenobi is what I would expect, and the EU stuff confirms, Luke to name his offspring. Ben shouldn't have a particular connection to the Organa-Solo family, Bail Organa knew him as Obi-Wan, not Ben. Maybe he really is Luke's somehow? Maybe he's biologically Leia and Han's, but Luke raised him more than they did? Really to isolate yourself like that requires a deeper personal connection than your nephew even if you were training him.
 
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Xyon

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I think Kylo Ren wears the mask in a vain attempt to emulate Vader. We see him pleading with the battered remains of Vader's helmet (suspiciously light damage for having been burnt at the end of ROTJ), and there's no secret he aspires to be akin to his grandfather as the film unfolds. So though he doesn't need the mask for any purpose, he's trying (IMO) to "borrow" some of Vader's old presence here.

There are other hints, too, that he is full of conflict. Look at how unstable his lightsaber blade is - Anakin's old saber, the only other we see in this film (somehow now a very much deeper blue than it used to be, but nvm) is very clean, smoothly generated, and shows a product of a calm creator (at least, in Anakin's case, his conflict came much later than its construction). But Kylo's is very unstable, fluctuates like crazy - looks a bit like a child is scribbling away at it. I posit that this is intentional, and it speaks to his internal difficulties and the battle going on inside. His irrationality and inability to control his temper is another more obvious sign of this kind of thing. Kylo is clearly full of rage, but he lacks the self-discipline to focus that in the way Vader did (perhaps Vader had a better teacher).

I do suspect that Ray may be a Skywalker and thus some kind of relation with Kylo, and we may see her try to leverage that connection and return him to the light in EPs VIII and IX - I can't wait!
 

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Coincidences?

Uhm.

1) BB8 escapes... and immediately finds Rey.
2) Finn escapes... has a crash-landing at walk distance from Rey and immediately finds her.
3) The Millennium Falcon is parked near, conveniently unlocked and unguarded.
4) Han Solo is in the immediate surroundings.

Abrams has idea of how big is a planet?
The encounters in Episode IV wasn't so incredibly fortuitous.


Speaking of the Death Star III... uh... ehm... the Starkiller Base... the logic of the entire thing is unclear. It is a planet, and can't move... so, how it can shoot at interstellar distance? Abrams has idea of how big is the interstellar space?

And if her sun was drained after only two shots of the superlaser, how you can still use it, after this?

---------- Post added at 12:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

Not the over the top let's-open-our-movie-with-a-conference-on-trade-taxation thing Phantom Menace did, but just a better explanation of what the Republic is doing and why the entire Republic isn't involved in dealing with a very real threat.

Threat that was very vague, never explained.
Episode IV with slightly different names (Resistance=Rebellion; First Order=Empire).

Well, even in Ep IV we haven't much explanations, but the plot is so linear that, with a couple of lines provided by Obi Wan, ve have immediately a clear image of the situation in the Galaxy.
Here, we have nothing. We only know that, in Luke absence, the First Order has risen... but hey, what happens to the REPUBLIC? And why all the hopes of the entire galaxy are AGAIN in the hands of an handful of rebels? Just like Ep. IV? The mighty Republic hasn't a fleet of staships? An army?
All this screams REBOOT...
 

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So I'm in this club now!

Overall, I liked it. Not great, but good.

I can live with the bad physics and coincidence. This is Star Wars, after all.

Kylo Ren is obviously a childish Jedi trainee who never finished his training. He loses his temper much easier than even Luke did, and Luke only lost it when Vader threatened his sister in the middle of a sword fight. Ren didn't handle himself very well in personal combat with Finn or Rey, both of whom are total n00bs to light sabre fights. To his credit, Finn is a trained combat soldier, but most infantrymen are not trained at sword fighting.

Some of the dialogue was a little too jokey and reminded me of the JJ Trek schlock. Han nodding his head to get Finn to see Rey was an awkward scene, and I don't think they properly developed Leia 's character. Hopefully she'll flesh out more in the next film.

I also think the parallels between this and episode IV are numerous, almost to the point of this being a remake. "All this has happened before, and all this shall happen again" as they say in BSG. I'll forgive it.

"Starkiller 1" is a nice nod to the original name of Luke before they settled on the final script in IV.

I loved the final scene. Luke looked like a king ready to retake his kingdom. It was perfect. No dialogue, just that look between Rey and Luke, with Annakin's original light sabre held out.

My brother and I both thought Mark Hamill, with the beard and all, looked an awful lot like King Arthur in the second half of the movie Excalibur, right before he rides out to fight Mordred. I also think that of the Big 3 SW actors, Hamill has grown the most as an actor and done well for himself with the voice acting as the Joker. He's not young anymore, and he has potential to be huge even yet.

I will come back when I have time to read Zatnikitelman's epic saga of a post.

---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

Oh, one other thing:

  • Move over, R2-D2. :p
I did like BB-8. but move over R2D2?

iu
 
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