Question Upcomming scenario requires 20 tons to Mars first

[HiPotOk1978]

In an upcomming scenario series I plan to make for that sweet sexy XR2, I have a question for everyone, here is a rough mission plan. Now I know I can edit the XR2's cfg file to make it so I have enough O2 and fuel to do this, but kinda takes some of the excitement out of it, hence the fun so here it goes

1. Launch from Earth, a 20 ton container of fuel towards Mars
2. Place container in Orbit around Mars for later docking

3. Launch manned craft to Mars
4. Land on Mars
5. Hang out on Mars (collect samples of rocks, soil, monitor weather conditions)
6. Launch from surface and dock with fuel container from 1st launch
7. Burn to Earth
8. Orbit Earth
9. Land at ReFuel Lunar Base

True, this is very rough, but I don't want to spoil any of the extra details involving the mission that your have to do it consider it a success, but the part I am stuck on is this...

Anyone have an unmanned launch vehicle that can put 20t in Martian orbit from Earth? Any susgestions welcome

 

[tblaxland]

Some quick back of the envelope calcs suggest a Saturn V would probably get you there but you would probably need to aerobrake your tank when you get there because I don't think you would have enough fuel margin to enter low Mars orbit.

Other options could be the Mars Direct shuttle-derived launcher or an Ares V. I don't know of an Ares V addon though.

 

[caningo]

In an upcomming scenario series I plan to make for that sweet sexy XR2, I have a question for everyone, here is a rough mission plan. Now I know I can edit the XR2's cfg file to make it so I have enough O2 and fuel to do this, but kinda takes some of the excitement out of it, hence the fun so here it goes

1. Launch from Earth, a 20 ton container of fuel towards Mars
2. Place container in Orbit around Mars for later docking

3. Launch manned craft to Mars
4. Land on Mars
5. Hang out on Mars (collect samples of rocks, soil, monitor weather conditions)
6. Launch from surface and dock with fuel container from 1st launch
7. Burn to Earth
8. Orbit Earth
9. Land at ReFuel Lunar Base

True, this is very rough, but I don't want to spoil any of the extra details involving the mission that your have to do it consider it a success, but the part I am stuck on is this...

Anyone have an unmanned launch vehicle that can put 20t in Martian orbit from Earth? Any susgestions welcome

Sounds interesting Hipotok. I have two questions for you:

How much space are those 20t going to occupy? Do you have a set design for the tank or is it can it be adjusted according to the rocket design constraints?

Last but most important. Do you want a current day technology rocket or a fictional rocket that just gets the job done?

 

[rocketman768]

If you have trouble finding a spacecraft that can get 20 tons into a path to Mars, it might be easier to launch the tanker into LEO then launch another craft to dock to it and apply the extra 4,000 m/s it would take to get it to Mars.

 

[HiPotOk1978]

Sounds interesting Hipotok. I have two questions for you:

How much space are those 20t going to occupy? Do you have a set design for the tank or is it can it be adjusted according to the rocket design constraints?

Last but most important. Do you want a current day technology rocket or a fictional rocket that just gets the job done?

The mission is to fly a DGIV out there so fictional is quite ok, I tried the Nexus but I am getting a CTD when the rocket stages. Nexus would be able to get it to Mars with no problem... The container I am planning to use is the 20t container from SSBB. I have used it before to go to Venus and back launching both it and the DGIV on the back of an Eneriga in LEO then orbital dock, blah blah blah

If you have trouble finding a spacecraft that can get 20 tons into a path to Mars, it might be easier to launch the tanker into LEO then launch another craft to dock to it and apply the extra 4,000 m/s it would take to get it to Mars.

I have thought that I could use a XR5 to send it on its way, the big question is how can I attach some sort of thruster/booster/rcs to the container to do the MOI.

As an extra incentive, I have thought about constructing a framework from SSBB and attaching engines to it to move it from LEO where the construction phase would be, and move it to Jupiter, Mars, etc... anywhere a manned mission to move cargo is not really needed. Several missions would follow to bring up cargo and EVA's to load the payload... The next phase moving it though the solar system is the problem. Noone has made any boosters that provide enough energy to even think to move it

 

[Woo482]

use this to launch it http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1036 then these for a tug http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1292

 

[HiPotOk1978]

use this to launch it http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1036 then these for a tug http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=1292

I did try the Energia and Space Tug but according to the manual 15 tons is pushing the Buran-T + space tug Smerch + space tug DM + payload. My experience is that is REALLY pushing the boosters. I was able to use the Smerch to boost the orbit after 6 orbits expending all of its fuel leaving just the DM for Mars orbit capture. The system does work, if all your intending is a flyby of Mars with the weight I am wanting to orbit. I was thinking of aerobraking and tried that but I huffed and puffed and was not able to get a circular orbit like I wanted.

BUT u have given me an idea. Gonna try launching the Smerch attached to my container from an XR5... do my burn to get the XR5 and cargo to Mars then do a direct abort after ejecting my cargo.... Thx dude for bringing these booster back to my attention... This might work but I am going to have to do a orbital refuel to make sure I can get the XR5 and crew back

 

[Scarecrow]

I did try the Energia and Space Tug but according to the manual 15 tons is pushing the Buran-T + space tug Smerch + space tug DM + payload. My experience is that is REALLY pushing the boosters. I was able to use the Smerch to boost the orbit after 6 orbits expending all of its fuel leaving just the DM for Mars orbit capture. The system does work, if all your intending is a flyby of Mars with the weight I am wanting to orbit. I was thinking of aerobraking and tried that but I huffed and puffed and was not able to get a circular orbit like I wanted.

BUT u have given me an idea. Gonna try launching the Smerch attached to my container from an XR5... do my burn to get the XR5 and cargo to Mars then do a direct abort after ejecting my cargo.... Thx dude for bringing these booster back to my attention... This might work but I am going to have to do a orbital refuel to make sure I can get the XR5 and crew back

If you wanted to have a REALLY good time without refueling, you could launch the XR5+Smerch+Tank combo on a course to the moon, then seperate them on the way there, line up a free return for the XR5 instead of a direct abort, and a slingshot to Mars for the Smerch+Tank.

Wow, now I really want to do this.

 

[HiPotOk1978]

Still working on this here folks... I got my craft loaded up just trying to figure out how to do it now. The Smerch and the SSBB 20t tank as u see take up almost all the lenght of the XR5 Cargobay. I am wanting to launch from the corporate HQ of ReFuel, picture was taken on Runway 9L since well it is a ReFuel mission but finding a low energy launch window for the supplies is becomming quite a pain due to the latitude of the runway. Anyone want to try to dial up a good window from that location I think it would be awesome. I am looking for a date in or after the year of 2023. I am thinking about Opening up another Earth base maybe ReFuel Mexico or Refuel Euro somewhere near the equator and with ocean downrange for staging rocket missions so if my latitude is too high well, boo



--EDIT--
Great idea but finding a launch window for my Earth base that lines up Moon and Mars for that? Tell me if u find a launch window Scarecrow, and your be my favorite orbitnaut

Ya this isn't working as good as i was hoping it would... NEW plan time. I do have to say that the XR5 even on default settings is a capable lifting platform I am going to have to try something new so back to the drawing board

The challenge still stands for anyone else that wants to give this a try. All you have to do is get a 4 man DGIV crew from Earth to Mars. Then get the crew back to Earth using nothing but the default settings for fuel and get it there as quickly as possible. A DGIV is small craft for 4 astronauts on a long journey. ANY other craft you use to make this happen also have to use Default settings. You mission or missions need to start from Earth space and you can only get fuel from ReFuel bases (eg corporate hq or ReFuel Lunar) If your getting bored with Futuristic craft or futuristic missions in Orbiter, you might wanna give this a try. Been racking my brain on this one. Thinking of calling Altera Aerospace to orbit my fuel for me and just not telling anyone.... aw crap! Curses my uncontrollable typing on this forum!!! KHAN!!!!!!

--LATEST NEWS--
I was able to get 20t on its way to Mars and sucessfully placed into orbit, but as I looked at my notes I said " that is way too complex for what I am trying to achieve." I do want people to be able to fly this and if I have a 60 page instruction manual, I am most likely going to turn people away. I am working on updating my flight plan so all I have to deal with getting to Mars is 12,400 kg

 

[Peskie]

I have thought that I could use a XR5 to send it on its way, the big question is how can I attach some sort of thruster/booster/rcs to the container to do the MOI.

For MCCs and an atmospheric breaking and reentry have you thought about something like the LandMod cargo box attachment used with World of 2001? http://www.worldof2001.com/

The 'TankAL2' cargo from Wof2001 is a fuel container (defaults to 9600 kg of fuel per container) and fits well in a single payload slot of the XR5. However it fits less well with a LandMod attached, not to mention that you can only get the XR5 payload editor to add the cargo boxes without attached LandMods.

The Wof2001 included scenario Mars/Cargo Missions/'Flinger' Missions/1 - Taurus 'Flinger' mission.scn is an example of using a single vessel to fling three of these containers to Mars.

If you want the changes needed to the Wof2001 cargo boxes to make them compatible with the XR payload system let me know (I can't recall how much I tweaked the attachment/offset points to line it up tho).

 

[HiPotOk1978]

For MCCs and an atmospheric breaking and reentry have you thought about something like the LandMod cargo box attachment used with World of 2001? http://www.worldof2001.com/

The 'TankAL2' cargo from Wof2001 is a fuel container (defaults to 9600 kg of fuel per container) and fits well in a single payload slot of the XR5. However it fits less well with a LandMod attached, not to mention that you can only get the XR5 payload editor to add the cargo boxes without attached LandMods.

The Wof2001 included scenario Mars/Cargo Missions/'Flinger' Missions/1 - Taurus 'Flinger' mission.scn is an example of using a single vessel to fling three of these containers to Mars.

If you want the changes needed to the Wof2001 cargo boxes to make them compatible with the XR payload system let me know (I can't recall how much I tweaked the attachment/offset points to line it up tho).

Right now I am trying to find a vehicle that can move the 20t of weight. Does the addon you mention deal with that weight?