Are there any cheats?

unussapiens

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I think people think things explode because they tend to disintegrate during launch (where the fuel makes a nice bang) or on reentry (where there is already plenty of heat).

When you watch footage of either Challenger or Columbia it looks like it is exploding unless you look closely and/or know it isn't exploding but disintegrating.
 

landon2006

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Yeah... I didn't mean "explore" in the technical sense. I was using the term figuratively for "disintegrate" or "fall apart". I'm well aware that the shuttle has very little, if anything that can "Blow up".

I was just thinking that to make the Sim as real as possible, you should have to make the correct entry into the earths atmosphere, or the shuttle will "explode", pardon me, "disintegrate". And by the way, this could very well happen. After all, thats what the heat shields are for... If one of them has problems, or the heat is placed on the wrong part of the shuttle and not the heat shields, it will "disintegrate", "blow up", call it what you like.... not exist anymore, except in tiny parts.

Thanks for that Universal Breakup link... I'll look into it.
 

Hielor

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Challenger didn't explode.

Columbia didn't explode.

Soyuz-1 didn't explode.

Sorry, where has history disagreed with me?

Arguably Challenger did explode.

Your post made it sound like you were saying that nothing can go wrong because MCC-H won't let the action (landing or launch) take place if there's anything wrong, which is clearly not the case.

The problem is that you guys are taking "explode" to mean movie style "car off a cliff" explosions, whereas I'm pretty sure that's not what people are looking for in Orbiter.
 

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No, let's get this straight, Challenger did NOT explode. She desinigrated, in a manner similar to Columbia. Watch the footage, you'll see.
 

Hielor

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No, let's get this straight, Challenger did NOT explode. She desinigrated, in a manner similar to Columbia. Watch the footage, you'll see.

Yes, it disintegrated without exploding, in a rather large fireball.

Oh. Wait.

Yeah, I just watched the footage again. Most people would call that an "explosion."
 

landon2006

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In my view, "Explode" means the following: To Break into tiny pieces under some sort of force. Rather that force be an "Explosion" of gases to ignite a fireball, hence causing the breakup, or it simply "Disintegrating", either way, It pretty much "Explodes" in my book.

Sorry if that don't fit into the MW Dictionary term for "Explosion"...

PS) Went online and looked it up in the dictionary. See the terms for "Explodes" below. One of the definitions was:

2. To burst violently as a result of internal / external pressure.
3.
To cause to release energy or burst violently and noisily
4. to burst with great violence; blow up

Is that not how a space shuttle "Explodes"? Something has to trigger the shuttle to "Fall into a million pieces". If not Fire, then Pressure is the only other thing I can think of. Please correct me if I'm wrong. ;)


 

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Hielor

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Read the rogers commission report. Challenger did not explode....

...Report is here -> http://history.nasa.gov/rogersrep/51lcover.htm

Ok. Chapter III, sentence 2:
It ended 73 seconds later in an explosive burn of hydrogen and oxygen propellants that destroyed the External Tank and exposed the Orbiter to severe aerodynamic loads that caused complete structural breakup.
Bolding is mine.

Later on:
...while traveling at a Mach number of 1.92 at an altitude of 46,O00[sic] feet, the Challenger was totally enveloped in the explosive burn.
Again, bolding is mine, as is the [sic] commenting on the "O" instead of the "0".
 

Urwumpe

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2. To burst violently as a result of internal / external pressure.
3.
To cause to release energy or burst violently and noisily
4. to burst with great violence; blow up

Is that not how a space shuttle "Explodes"? Something has to trigger the shuttle to "Fall into a million pieces". If not Fire, then Pressure is the only other thing I can think of. Please correct me if I'm wrong. ;)

Ok, you asked for it.

A deflagration is a propagation of a combustion zone at a velocity less than the speed of sound in the unreacted medium. A detonation is a propagation of a combustion zone at a velocity greater than the speed of sound in the unreacted medium. An explosion is the bursting or rupture of an enclosure or container due to the development of internal pressure from a deflagration or detonation. As defined in NFPA 69.

So yes, you are wrong. Your number 2 is the physical and engineering explanation, 3 and 4 are colloquial use.

It is a major difference, if you could replay the end of the shuttle in slow motion. The ET does not explode - it first disintegrates (instead of bursting from internal overpressure) by loosing aft tank dome and intertank structure, and there is actually almost no chemical reaction at all. The white cloud you saw, was just the effect of aerodynamics and internal tank pressure.

If a perfect mixture of hydrogen and oxygen would explode inside the ET, you would instead see no such cloud at all - the tank would burst into shrapnel, the fireball would follow.

The fate of the shuttle was similar: There was nothing to explode inside it and also no stuff to detonate. Instead, loosing the external tank below it caused it to get ripped into pieces by pure dynamic air pressure, when being forcefully placed at unfavorable angles of attack. Without fractions of a second, you would see first the wings fly away and disintegrate, then the nose, pressure hull (with many parts of the payload bay) and finally the still running engines. All in about 0.2 seconds from the tank collapsing below you and the pressure hull being in free fall.

In slow motion, it would be like a giant tearing it into pieces.

An explosion would make the shuttle burst into parts from overpressure inside.

But that not even happened to the fuel tanks in the nose section: These just got destroyed, possibly be debris and the contents of the tanks deflagrated partially. From the coloration of the cloud there, most of the tank contents did not react.
 

landon2006

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Okay... You got me there... All I'm saying is, to me, it explodes... Maybe not in the dictionary term of "explodes"... But it "explodes". Forgive my layman term ;-)
 

Hielor

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So yes, you are wrong. Your number 2 is the physical and engineering explanation, 3 and 4 are colloquial use.
This is a web forum, not an accident commission. For our purposes the colloquial ones are perfectly fine. Moreover, as quoted in my previous post, the Rogers Commission report referred to it as "explosive."

...there is actually almost no chemical reaction at all. The white cloud you saw, was just the effect of aerodynamics and internal tank pressure.
No chemical reaction at all? Where did the fire come from? Also, if the white cloud was a result of "internal tank pressure" and according to your technical definition of exploding, explosions are caused by internal pressure...

If a perfect mixture of hydrogen and oxygen would explode inside the ET, you would instead see no such cloud at all - the tank would burst into shrapnel, the fireball would follow.
A fireball like the one that was seen? And fire leaves smoke.

The fate of the shuttle was similar...
The shuttle itself did not explode, that is correct. It was consumed by the "explosive burn" (quoted directly from the RC report) from the ET.

My inclination is: if the official report on the incident refers to it as "explosive," then it's perfectly fine for any average Joe to refer to it as an explosion.
 

C3PO

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To most people, "Explodes" means that something goes from one piece to being in several pieces. :D
 

Urwumpe

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Also, there is a difference between explosive burn and explosion, but don't let me look this one up now. Explosion has clearly the confinement criteria, which does not apply the the ET.

Also, the only true part on the whole Rogers Report was the Appendix F... The rest of it has to be consumed with care as later research about the accident revealed that the commission did not really care about the chain of events.
 

DaveS

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This is a quote from an old presentation made by the NASA Photo and TV Analysis Group for the Commission:

On the break-up event:
As the ET broke up, the released fluids vapourized rapidly producing an expanding cloud of gases, vapours and cryogenic fluid with embedded debris and localized combustion of mixed gases.

No shockwave or any other violent explosion was detected in the imagery. Illumination from a combination of SRB plume radiance, reflected sun light and peripheral burning of gases gives the cloud an appearance of a fireball.
 

doggie015

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That is something I think would be neat to ad to orbiter... the ability for the spacecraft to explode? I mean, in realistic terms, if your flying the shuttle, and you don't enter the atmosphere right, it will explode. Should be like that in the Sim.. Make it even more realistic.

*clears throat* [ame="http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3643"]Search[/ame]
 

Omhra

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It was like if you throw a balloon filled of fuel(s) at mac one point something with a burning tail you manage to puncture it and it ruptures spilling the fuel...
see?... it wasn't an explosion. But rig a balloon filled with fuel with an internal trigger and watch it explode. If there was an explosion in the shuttle system, it was in the form of very fast hot rubber gas exploding past the groove in the seal ring attach/strut... That and all the rest; is a series of very NEEDFUL of explanation events so that it is prevented from reoccurring.
Just because it happens fast it does not mean it "exploded"...
Unless...you want to generalize... In which case... what is the point? Just say it "crashed" or "it broke"... it don't run no mo'... Eh?
 

jalexb88

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To most people, explodes means KABOOUUUMM!!!!! :focus:
 

Jarvitä

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So I got obriter 2day and im having a bit of toruble completing a scenario. Im trying 2 do the apollo2 mission but it seems 2 always explode in the sky before i leav the atmospher. i dnt think im doin anything rong coz before that i did a flite all round the milky way. is there sum kind of 'god mode' or invincability cheat i can type in 2 prevent from explodin?

cheers, Martin (I want to be an astronaut lofl)

LOLOL I TROL U

Just go away.
 

Urwumpe

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To most people, explodes means KABOOUUUMM!!!!! :focus:

But we are not most people here. We are Orbiteers. We are the crème de la crème. We can tell the difference between detonation and deflagration, just as well as we know the difference between supersonic and subsonic.

And we really know what supersonic means when we attempt to reach Mach 40 in 1000m altitude.
 
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