AstroCam
Point loud end thataway
I smell a good novel in the making.....
Idea "Man on the Earth" project.
- Thread starter Linguofreak
- Start date
cjp
Addon Developer
Just a question... assuming those lunar people can survive 1G, then what is their maximum? If it's 1.5G, then your launch vehicle has to be very inefficient.
And do we assume earth's '60s/'70s technology, or a lunar equivalent of it? For lunar people, dealing with a liquid surface, or protection against oxygen may be completely new and unknown fields of technology, so they need time to invent it and send probes to earth to test it.
About the landing site: the scientific goals are probably related to the questions that Lunians have about earth, and that are hard to answer with '60s/'70s telescopes. I think Earth's life would be the most interesting subject, but it has to be life that can already be seen from earth (or from LEO probes): there is no reason to research something when you don't know it exists.
And do we assume earth's '60s/'70s technology, or a lunar equivalent of it? For lunar people, dealing with a liquid surface, or protection against oxygen may be completely new and unknown fields of technology, so they need time to invent it and send probes to earth to test it.
About the landing site: the scientific goals are probably related to the questions that Lunians have about earth, and that are hard to answer with '60s/'70s telescopes. I think Earth's life would be the most interesting subject, but it has to be life that can already be seen from earth (or from LEO probes): there is no reason to research something when you don't know it exists.
The lunatics are biologically human.
I would imagine Earth's 60's/70's technology, so they know how to handle Earth conditions.
Well, the lunians should have already spotted plant life, and they have found that surface conditions can support life like their own. I am not sure about LEO probes, as I imagine they would launch their first Earth-orbital probes into those eccentric "moon return orbits", but they could use motors to enter a permanant LEO, since weight requirements from the Moon are not as strict as from the surface of the Earth. I see the aerobraking used in the manned mission I am describing as a first (Was aerobraking known about in the 60's?)
The Lunatics will also send their versions of the Surveyor probes, etc. I think it would be worthwhile to model these probes.
Lots could be gained from probes like these.
AstroCam
Point loud end thataway
Also, keep in mind that until the work started on the earth project, lunanites would probably have no knowledge of aerodynamics, let alone atmospheric re-entry. Something along the lines of a vostok capsule may have been used first - perfect spheres survive high speed well.
Linguofreak
Well-known member
Do we Velcro them on? Or would that create problems if we're attaching the payloads with CVEL? I'm really not familiar enough with multistaging procedures to know. Could we put the whole stack, including the payloads together with Velcro, or would that create problems? (I could see some potential for problems in that the Earth lander would be carrying a whole rocket itself, yet we'd probably want the LRV on top of the stack).
Firstly, I say we don't attach the LRV/lander with CVEL. Since we have a single stage launcher, we might as well attach payload with UCD (Or, if going the custom DLL route, I believe kulch has a payload manager SDK somewhere.)
Secondly, there are sure things we want the payloads to do that cannot be done with Velcro. So it is either Sc3 or DLL.
Thirdly, I was thinking of a stage-and-a-half configuration for the launcher. Any ideas?
Linguofreak
Well-known member
Moon launcher or Earth launcher?
Linguofreak
Well-known member
That depends on some questions I asked upthread that I never really got an answer to. How much more mass do you think we need for RCS and OMS type systems for the Earth Launch Capsule? The crew compartment weighs 2000 kg. The mass of the ELC will determine what kind of launcher we need.
(We may need to take into account RCS mass for the LRV as well).
BTW, do you have the LRV mesh fixed yet?
I dunno. The shuttle has about 300 m/s Dv, but it has to deorbit, etc. The mass, I suppose, depends on the fuel and engines.
Ah, yes. What fuel do you propose for the LRV? I already have RCS positions worked out (sort of)
Uh, no, oops. It should be really easy to fix the nozzle, is there anything else you want me to do to it as well?
Linguofreak
Well-known member
Linguofreak
Well-known member
Apparently Apollo used N2O4/UDMH for RCS, and apparently it's a fairly common combination, and the Apollo RCS system had an ISP of about 2850 m/s. Shall we use that?
Linguofreak
Well-known member
With the tanks part of the mesh? I could give it a go.
EDIT:
Here it is. If you dont want to overwrite the previous version, save it under a differant name or rename it. It is very simple. I can fix that. This was just meant to be a preliminary mesh.
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Linguofreak
Well-known member
Make one with the tanks as part of the mesh and one with just the bare ship with nothing but a central tank with maybe a third of the total capacity. Volumes don't need to be exact, we'll be fiddling with them as we figure out exactly how much we need.
Darn. It took me so long to edit my post, that you posted before me. I got the first one, with tanks attached. I'll try the other one, but right now I am a bit asleep. I'll see what I can do.
EDIT:
Without tanks. The volume is probably wrong, but here goes...
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Linguofreak
Well-known member
The thing I'm trying to figure out now is how much the RCS thrusters themselves should weigh. In addition to that, we may have to put together a provisional capsule and launcher to test rendezvous between the ELC and LRV in order to determine how much DV we need for the ELC. I'd say estimate 2500 kg for the entire ELC. Should be about the size of Gemini. Can you put a mesh together for that?
For our Earth launcher, what engines and propellants should we use? That will also go into determining whether we can do your stage and a half thing.
EDIT: Could a mod move this thread from the requests to the development forum, now that work is being done on it?
For our Earth launcher, what engines and propellants should we use? That will also go into determining whether we can do your stage and a half thing.
EDIT: Could a mod move this thread from the requests to the development forum, now that work is being done on it?
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Sure thing.
This is tough. I was thinking of hypergolic propellants, because they would not boil off during a week stay. Another consideration is ISRU, but in the middle of the desert, and with 60's/70's tech, I am not sure if that is possible.
I have an idea for the Earth lander. I think it should completely conceal the ascent stage, and on liftoff the ascent stage should use it as a sort of "launch silo".
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