News Decommissioning of Discovery (OV-103)

[N_Molson]

While I understand there is a lot of emotion around the Space Shuttles, I don't see where is the problem to clean up some parts from toxic propellants and replacing valuable components by mockups. It's not an human being.

The OMS pods can certainly be reused for other applications, or stored for a later usage, they have proven to be extremely reliable. Or maybe engineers will be able to improve further those engines by analyzing in detail every little component of them.

Also, the engineers will be able to analyze components that were impossible to access since the orbiter was built, as says the article from SpaceFlight Now :

But between now and then the space shuttle program wants to delve inside the venerable ship and explore engineering questions about hardware that's not been accessible for examination since construction in the early 1980s.

"There's some things on the vehicles, especially Discovery, that we haven't looked at since it was built out in California. Things like actuators. It's very invasive to go in. I had some pretty good debates with the ground operations team about the difficulty of going to get some of these things. But from an engineering standpoint, this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to go see how a reusable vehicle actually weathered this many cycles, this many times on orbit, this much time in ground processing," said John Shannon, the shuttle program manager.

"So we'll go get representative actuators, we're going to get main engine flow liners, things that basically you started with and built the orbiter around."

I'm pretty sure that some good will come out of it. Flight experience engineering data is an extremely valuable resource in terms of spacecrafts design. And here, we have almost 30 years of flight experience ! :thumbup:

It's very interesting to be able to answer the question : why did a given component worked so well during all those years ? And more positive than the usual "why did that component failed and how to replace it in the hurry ?"

 

[T.Neo]

While I understand there is a lot of emotion around the Space Shuttles, I don't see where is the problem to clean up some parts from toxic propellants and replacing valuable components by mockups. It's not an human being.

Of course it isn't a human being. It's a space shuttle. It's a historic, magnificent vehicle.

The toxic... propellant... cleaning, is a good thing. The fact that they're cutting them up? It just... isn't... nice.

The OMS pods can certainly be reused for other applications, or stored for a later usage,

What could they possibly use the OMS pods for? The OMS pods are, OMS pods... I seriously hope you don't think that they would... cobble one of those together onto an upper stage of some vehicle...

Also, the engineers will be able to analyze components that were impossible to access since the orbiter was built, as says the article from SpaceFlight Now :

By cutting her up.

It's like... cutting up the HMS Victory or the Cutty Sark to see how that wood has aged for all these years... useful research maybe, but not very pretty to hear.

I'm pretty sure that some good will come out of it. Flight experience engineering data is an extremely valuable resource in terms of spacecrafts design. And here, we have almost 30 years of flight experience !

It's very interesting to be able to answer the question : why did a given component worked so well during all those years ? And more positive than the usual "why did that component failed and how to replace it in the hurry ?"

Yet I wonder, where this research would go towards... considering that it is likely that for the next quarter century at least, most space vehicles (save for capsules or orbital craft docked to stations in orbit for months) will operate in total (including pad time) for less than 30 days, not 30 years...

 

[N_Molson]

Yet I wonder, where this research would go towards... considering that it is likely that for the next quarter century at least, most space vehicles (save for capsules or orbital craft docked to stations in orbit for months) will operate in total (including pad time) for less than 30 days, not 30 years...

A X-37B is quietly orbiting over your head right now, and will continue to do that during the next 200 days

More about the engines, and specifically the OMS pods :

Another key aspect of the shuttle retirement effort is saving critical hardware for reuse on next-generation vehicles. Removal of Discovery's three main engines and the two orbital maneuvering system (OMS) pods on the ship's tail will occur in the coming weeks, and both sets of engines will be preserved by NASA for possible use on future vehicles instead of going with the shuttle to the museum.

"The main engines are an extremely valuable asset and I want to save all of our Block 2 SSMEs that we have. We have a plan to store them in a purged, safe environment along with all the ground systems required to maintain them until we decide what to do with the next program," Shannon said.

"So what we did is we really searched facilities for excess hardware we could build up into some main engines. We've been doing that recently. We'll have 9 engines we'll put into each of the vehicles that are older technology engines, but they're real nozzles that flew, they're real combustion chambers, real pumps. So we'll take out the really good engines that we'd like to save for the next program and put in re-built engines that we kinda scrapped together. That is what will be displayed.

"I'm also trying to find enough funds and enough parts to build some static engines that we can display with those vehicles as well, so people can see how big and how complex they really are.

"I'm also trying to save the OMS engines, the small orbital maneuvering system engines on the back. Same reason. If we can use them in a future program, I think they're very valuable assets. We don't have a lot of spares on those, so those probably are going to be mocked up (for the museum). At least a nozzle, but probably nothing behind it in the OMS pod."

All the article there.

 

[datubaman]

Farewell, Discovery. And we thank you.
You were, and will always be, a great ship.

 

[tl8]

As an engineer, this is probably the most exciting thing that can happen. Pulling something apart is a great way to find out why it works and how parts wore. This is probably going to generate more information than one of her missions. And will be very valuable to the Aerospace industry. Remember this is the first space plane program that has completed its life cycle.

It is also important to remember the shuttles are probably the most complicated machines we have ever built. As far as any engineering is concerned the STS program has led the way for engineering of all forms and to me, why the Space Shuttle is inspiring.

 

[jinglesassy]

People If something could be learned from examining those engines that could save lives in a future vehicle then i think it should be done. We will still have discovery. It isn't going to the salvage yard.

 

[N_Molson]

Unlike Buran, which had REALLY a very sad ending...

 

[T.Neo]

Ok... maybe, we can also draw parallels with the medical examiner, excited at the prospect of finding the cause of death of a patient by cutting their body apart...

People If something could be learned from examining those engines that could save lives in a future vehicle then i think it should be done.

Save lives where and in which future vehicle? At this point we don't know what future vehicle, if any, there will be...

Nevertheless, I think storing the latest SSMEs is a pretty good idea, there have actually been proposals to use vehicles that would make use of them... vehicles that will probably never fly, nontheless...

Example of a full lifecycle spaceplane program? Who will that matter to? Who is seriously planning to build a spaceplane, or indeed any spacecraft even vaguely like STS? Can we be sure we'll even have a spaceplane program of any kind within the next 50-60 years? :dry:

Unlike Buran, which had REALLY a very sad ending...

Oh no... not Buran, that was really horrible.

That hangar collapse probably means that a lot less people will hear about or be inspired by the Soviet shuttle program...

But; you know what they say- when a vehicle that was flying when you were young, is in a museum, you know you are getting old...

At my young age, I already feel old.

 

[N_Molson]

Oh no... not Buran, that was really horrible.

:hesaid:

and even more :facepalm:

(sorry, this picture can shock spaceplane-sensible audience)

 

[T.Neo]

A X-37B is quietly orbiting over your head right now, and will continue to do that during the next 200 days

Totally different vehicle. And that is also not the sort of launch record you might expect of STS... but that all depends on launch rates.

X-37B doing a 200 day on-orbit stay is very different from the STS with its roughly 17 day maximum endurance, which makes it different... but there are definitely some parallels between the two vehicles.

(sorry, this picture can shock spaceplane-sensible audience)

That's horrible... is that Buran? Or one of the other, partially completed shuttles, left to rot?

I hate how all this stuff is sitting out in the snow... they should at least put the thing under a tarp or something.

 

[N_Molson]

Sadly, it is... (you will recognize the cabin on the center of the pic, under the whole mess)...

In comparison, Discovery is lucky to be cleaned and displayed in a museum where billion of people will be able to look at her and remember her deeds, maybe for centuries !

 

[Ghostrider]

Ok... maybe, we can also draw parallels with the medical examiner, excited at the prospect of finding the cause of death of a patient by cutting their body apart...

Well... "Curious" more than "excited". My wife is a pathologist and she doesn't exactly believe that cutting a corpse open is "exciting". She's still hoping they'll make virtual autopsies finally as reliable as "live" ones (and I must say, autopsies are far from the "Crossing Jordan" standard of absolute reliability). Autopsies and crime scene investigations are more of a somber business (unless you've got a sociopathic streak).

Now, insurance fraud and real estate scams, that's the fun stuff...

 

[Kyle]

hail Discovery

 

[Keatah]

Chicago does not deserve one of those shuttles. Chicago, probably like any other big city though, is just so touristy. You get raped for every nickel and dime.

 

[jinglesassy]

 

[squeaky024]

Better image of Buran.

 

[jinglesassy]

Another sad image of the soviet shuttle buran.

 

[HarvesteR]

Well, at least that one is in a better(-ish) state...

How many of those were built?

And yeah, I also think stripping Discovery apart is very sad... it is indeed like taking apart HMS Victory or some other Hero Ship...

Well, at least they'll put 'er back together later on (although not with all original parts)...
That'll be kind of a spoiler though, when we get to see her at the museum... We'll know the engines aren't the original ones. :thumbsdown:

And about the keeping the good engines for later use... wtf? do they seriously expect to duct tape those 30-year-old engines onto a new craft? Does that even make sense?
I understand the need to study them, and see what went right... but reusing? that sounds a little Mad Max for me

Cheers

 

[jinglesassy]

Correction harvester they are original ones more so then the ones on it now. The replacement SSME's are earlier versions from the challenger days. So yes they are more original also would you rather have a cleaned discovery or people getting sick after seeing discovery from the toxic hydrazine?

 

[HarvesteR]

As I understood it, they were cobbled together from various parts of older engines they had lying about...

And I didn't say I was against the cleaning... I'm just saying it'll be a little weird to know that the RCS modules are mockups instead of the real (cleaned up) ones...

Cheers