Updates SpaceX Falcon 9 F5 CRS SpX-2 through CRS SpX-12 Updates

Hlynkacg

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I'd still prefer actual numbers on their costs but...it's SpaceX.

What they charge for a launch is public knowledge.

If you're asking for an itemized list of what they spend on what you're SOL.

We know through public tax records that Mr. Munsk sunk a good chunk of his own fortune into the Falcon9/Dragon project and that SpaceX turned a profit last year. But beyond that they are in no way obligated to provide any such information.
 
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Urwumpe

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SpaceX is bankrupt and will be bought by Boeing.

(Just kidding)

---------- Post added at 07:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------

Sounds like old news... first stage landing seems to be a success... and Musk is really out of territory when talking about rockets... sounds like Jen explaining her IT skills as reading and deleting E-Mails....
 

Kyle

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So far in:

First stage landing was a success, landing gear deployed, vehicle reached zero velocity above the ocean. First stage was lost due to 15-20ft seas, was only able to recover part of the vehicle due to wave actions being way too extreme for a recovery attempt for two days. Next time will use bigger boats for a recovery. Video was taken and will be posted.

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

SpaceX have filed suit against ULA block buy for Air Force satellites.

Pointing out how the F9 is good enough for NASA payloads and GEO missions, so they're good enough for GPS satellites. Also pointing out ULA is using Russian engines during a time of instability with Russia.
 

Urwumpe

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SpaceX have filed suit against ULA block buy for Air Force satellites.

Bad decision. Never sue your future customers.
 

Kyle

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Musk is surprised the Air Force is blocking them from competing for contracts after they told SpaceX they'd done what they'd needed for launching Air Force payloads. Issue is with a select few in the Air Force, not the Air Force itself.

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------

"All polar flights out of Vandenberg, all GTO flights out of Brownsville, all NASA flights from LC39A + FH, and all Air Force/DOD flights from SLC-40."

Presser over, final words in regards to ULA engines, "this seems like the wrong time to be sending millions of dollars to the Kremlin."
 
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Presser over, final words in regards to ULA engines, "this seems like the wrong time to be sending millions of dollars to the Kremlin."

This seems like the wrong time for a domestic businessman to get involved into international politics that are another kind of rocket science he does not fully understand but use for good PR.;)
 

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MattBaker, Urwumpe, you are about 10 years too late to treat SpaceX and Musk as amateur rocket hobbyists. But hey, haters gonna hate. :shrug:
 

Urwumpe

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MattBaker, Urwumpe, you are about 10 years too late to treat SpaceX and Musk as amateur rocket hobbyists. But hey, haters gonna hate. :shrug:

Ah well... hey, do you hear this? The 60s just called, they want their technology back. :lol:

Also, we don't joke about SpaceX...at least I don't. I joke about Musk talking about cold gas nitrogen thrusters, like about some exotic medical condition. :lol:
 

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MattBaker, Urwumpe, you are about 10 years too late to treat SpaceX and Musk as amateur rocket hobbyists. But hey, haters gonna hate. :shrug:

I just don't like people being dishonest for the sake of their business and to attract fanboys. Sure the reality doesn't sound as awesome as a city-sized Mars colony. But it makes you more serious than trying to be Ironman.

Also I do believe Musk is just an amateur rocket hobbyist. He is the CEO, not the chief engineer. I'd even go as far as saying some orbinauts might be more knowledgeable than him in a lot of space-related stuff simply because he is the businessman of the company, the seller, the face.
 

Hlynkacg

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This seems like the wrong time for a domestic businessman to get involved into international politics that are another kind of rocket science he does not fully understand but use for good PR.;)

It's less about the international politics and more about the local.

There's a congressional oversight committee that's looking into whether or not the commercial crew program is a "costly boondoggle" that's funneling important funds away from SLS/Orion, there's also a committee looking in to charges of corruption in the US Air Force's Procurement process. Basically the charges go that companies like Lockheed have been offering to "hire" a retired general or congressman's kid for a multi-million dollar "job" in exchange for that congressman or general's support in the process. Essentially bribery.

Musk's comments are basically saying that he knows about and will call attention to this, even though mentioning it directly could be seen as "interfering" in an ongoing investigation.
 

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So far in:

First stage landing was a success, landing gear deployed, vehicle reached zero velocity above the ocean. First stage was lost due to 15-20ft seas, was only able to recover part of the vehicle due to wave actions being way too extreme for a recovery attempt for two days. Next time will use bigger boats for a recovery. Video was taken and will be posted.

---------- Post added at 05:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:18 PM ----------

SpaceX have filed suit against ULA block buy for Air Force satellites.

Pointing out how the F9 is good enough for NASA payloads and GEO missions, so they're good enough for GPS satellites. Also pointing out ULA is using Russian engines during a time of instability with Russia.
Ahh, the RD-180 engine trouble. Some politics (who most of them got a weak heart for that famous X) putted the proposal of basically put a stop on the Atlas-V, what causing a monopoly for SpaceX with CCDev.
 

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It's less about the international politics and more about the local.

It's using international politics to get support and your will in domestic politics. Can't say I like that any more...
 

Hlynkacg

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Ahh, the RD-180 engine trouble. Some politics (who most of them got a weak heart for that famous X) putted the proposal of basically put a stop on the Atlas-V, what causing a monopoly for SpaceX with CCDev.

Which was merely a counter-proposal to the ULA-backed proposal to bar privately owned companies from launching from within the US. (The government is really touchy about the idea of privately owned ICBMs.)

:rolleyes:

It's using international politics to get support and your will in domestic politics. Can't say I like that any more...

No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Failure to do so would be as bad for the company as any launch failure.
 

Alfastar

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Which was merely a counter-proposal to the ULA-backed proposal to bar privately owned companies from launching from within the US. (The government is really touchy about the idea of privately owned ICBMs.)

:rolleyes:



No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Failure to do so would be as bad for the company as any launch failure.

So its just fighting proposals made only because the competition between ULA and SpaceX?
 

Urwumpe

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As usual, the Orbiter Forum couch rocket scientists know better what to do with SpaceX than CEO does :p

Give me 31% of the money that Musk burned, and I'll show you couch rocket scientist...
 

Hlynkacg

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So its just fighting proposals made only because the competition between ULA and SpaceX?

Pretty much.

I'm sure ULA's supporters have nothing but the public welfare in mind when they argue that spaceflight is simply too important and dangerous to be trusted to private operators.

Likewise when SpaceX supporters point out that a company that advertises itself 100% American, ships work in from overseas rather than use domestic sources.

:shifty:

---------- Post added at 13:28 ---------- Previous post was at 13:21 ----------

Give me 31% of the money that Musk burned, and I'll show you couch rocket scientist...

Give the Commercial Crew Program 31% of the money that NASA burned on SLS and Orion and I'm pretty sure we'd already have crewed Dragons and Dreamchasers making flights to the ISS.

:p
 
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Urwumpe

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Give the Commercial Crew Program 31% of the money that NASA burned on SLS and Orion and I'm pretty sure we'd already have crewed Dragons and Dreamchasers making flights to the ISS.

:p

Give me nine women and we can have a baby every month... *cough*

Sorry to be a bit nasty, but while I dislike SLS, I think what NASA does is still worth every dollar - since they do basic research and important applied sciences, that benefit all companies... often even outside the USA.

But still, what I meant to point out is, that SpaceX has not been cheaper, faster or more effective yet, than other organisations. And also not more reliable. A large lot of the money so far went into giving SpaceX a terrible vertical integration in the production process (Like also for Tesla, same horrible strategy that can only be explained by ego boosting). SpaceX produces almost everything around their product. From launch pad, over engines and launcher to even the payload. As if the rest of the industry didn't exist and everything that took place in the past 40 years had been wiped out by WW3.

If you analyze the past and the present announcements, you can easily come to the conclusion, that it is indeed possible to do better - by not being like SpaceX at all. And if you get to that conclusion, you can deduce, that you also need less money for positioning yourself faster on the market. You need no big show products. You need flexibility, and accepting to be hidden champion for sometime before you can get yourself into the limelight. SpaceX does it the opposite way, it gets from the limelight to the product and maybe it will have flexibility in some years. Currently it is telling customers and rivals, what the customers should want. That works in the consumer market, where generating hypes is everything you need. But only few companies base strategic decisions like launching a satellite on hypes. In reality, you need to be willed to even have your strategic rivals as operational customers. And be customer at times. Start with one thing and become the best in it. And then do another thing. Why does SpaceX need to produce their own engines, if they are so primitive, that approximately 120 SMEs in the USA could produce them or at least critical parts of them.

Economies of scale? Doubtful. Do you know the company Thermoplan? I am pretty sure, you never heard of them. But you know Starbucks, don't you? Thermoplan is a tiny company in Switzerland, that builds the coffee machines that are in every Starbucks shop - a small company, but for the invested money highly successful. And thousands of such companies exist in the world. There is even a company in the world, that makes a lot of profit by producing only one product and that usually only 2-3 times per year: It builds theaters for cruise ships.

The important question thus is: What do I really need to produce myself - and where should I better create markets for smaller companies around me to increase my flexibility? And which products can I do in the next five years that way?

SpaceX promises flexibility in time right now - but does not yet keep their promise how the customer expects it... rather they expect flexibility in time from their customers. They claim to get this flexibility by producing everything themselves - in reality, this is no sign of flexibility but the opposite. In reality the smaller companies around you can react much faster, than you can as big company. While you organize your own big company and trigger the initial processes, the small companies are very likely already itchy to be on-board, and when you call them, they will be already there. In your office, in one hour. With a contract-to-go. ;)

And that is where my 31% estimate comes from - I don't need money to build my own industry. I need money for making others build my industry and tie them to me as suppliers. If needed from abroad. The only deal you should have is, if you depend on a single supplier. And yes, that single supplier could be you, in the end.

And if you need hypes...Give Reaction Engines 1% of the money that SpaceX got from NASA before they had done anything at all... would be more interesting IMHO, considering how disciplined they work with their small budget.

(If this long reply disturbs the news thread... please move it, where it fits better. Even if this is the trash bin)
 

Thunder Chicken

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Give the Commercial Crew Program 31% of the money that NASA burned on SLS and Orion and I'm pretty sure we'd already have crewed Dragons and Dreamchasers making flights to the ISS.

:p

Yeah, but NASA had to burn that money in an attempt to keep some of their experienced people from STS from walking. Not efficient at all, but that's the way NASA has to operate to keep their experienced folks on board between programs. I'll be surprised if SLS or Orion make it to the pad, never mind into space, but it keeps engineers busy and avoids a vacuum where budgets would tend to get cut to zero for lack of activity.

Back on subject - Come on Elon, send me some video of that first stage touchdown! Please!
 
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