Updates SpaceX Falcon 9 F5 CRS SpX-2 through CRS SpX-12 Updates

RisingFury

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Which a simple well placed camera at the crucial spot could have detected already in the first analysis, maybe even in real time.

That's assuming the failure is mechanical. I think the biggest worry in landing the rocket is not mechanical failure, but software failure or error in positioning.

You could have video of the rocket tipping over, but that'd tell you didn't already know by looking at the orientation data.
 

Cairan

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Let's remember that they launched despite the heavy seas in the first stage landing area... Anyone who has seen footage of Coast Guard helicopter rescue operations of capsized boats in heavy swells can figure that the rocket was to be rocked by heavy seas when it splashed down...
 

Kyle

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HDEV has been installed on Columbus via Dextre.
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Thunder Chicken

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This is based on the presumption that those personnel should be retained in the first place.

If you aren't going to use them let someone else do so.

Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that NASA is just "saving them for the next project". The "Experienced workers" of the STS era are already retiring and will likely dead and buried before that "next project" comes along.

In the meantime we're funneling people and funds from R&D and projects that might actually fly.

If those experienced workers at NASA do nothing else except chat with the new hires about the good old days and their war stories over coffee, they will be earning their keep and some.

Some things that are invaluable cannot be measured in widgets produced or stock value per quarter. Organizations that know this thrive. Organizations that do not know this struggle and fail.
 

Andy44

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It shows IMHO that SpaceX still lacks professionalism for testing.

You cut SpaceX no slack, what's your beef with them? No matter what they do right, it seems they've done it wrong in your book.

Cameras are just candy anyway. Telemetry tells you way more than video.
 

ISProgram

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Cameras are just candy anyway. Telemetry tells you way more than video.

Definitely true, but having seen that video (if you can call it that), I actually noticed a couple interesting things. And I was wondering if anyone noticed a couple things themselves...

...should/could a discussion like this (landing) be in another thread? It's sufficiently interesting to qualify, I think.
 

MaverickSawyer

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...should/could a discussion like this (landing) be in another thread? It's sufficiently interesting to qualify, I think.

Not to mention dragging up opinion better expressed in the Basement... But that's, well, my opinion. :p
 

Urwumpe

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You cut SpaceX no slack, what's your beef with them? No matter what they do right, it seems they've done it wrong in your book.

Simply grew over time, going from SpaceX supporter (since I am commercial spaceflight supporter) to pretty disappointed over the years.

One factor is sure, that people talk about SpaceX like about some friendly tinkerers shop, a small start-up that deserves some credit already for nice tries and near misses. But in reality, SpaceX is a huge mature company, quickly inflated by loans and NASA money in a very short time with the beginning of the Falcon 9 project. It constantly claims to be more cost-effective than NASA - but then already the known inflow of money into SpaceX is on the same magnitude as big NASA programs. Its prices are a tiny bit below Arianespace, but they talk about these differences as if this is a order of magnitude and could also simply just be lower, because contrary to Arianespace, it does not need to publish values like the profit contribution of their rockets and could be selling their initial rockets below costs for strategic reasons. Only few people will know.

So, I made the choice to not compare SpaceX to Armadillo Aerospace or Reaction Engines, but to Boeing, Lockmart and NASA. And would I cheer NASA for what SpaceX does? Or Boeing? No, I would scorch them as hard as I scorch SpaceX, because we all know, that these big players in spaceflight can do better and have done better already in the past. SpaceX can't claim to play in a lower league, when it is about the quality of their work and claim to be champions league, when it is about the prices of future rockets. They have financially the same chances as the rest - but contrary to Boeing, they don't need to communicate financial information to the public because Boeing is a publicly traded company with the full regulations and duty to inform the public, and SpaceX is not.

Think about it: OrbitalATK will be smaller than SpaceX. And OrbitalATK must inform the public about their projects and financial situation. SpaceX doesn't need to.

And I am really more impressed by the work of Orbital in the past years, than about the work of SpaceX.

Cameras are just candy anyway. Telemetry tells you way more than video.

Here we will strongly differ. You can't have so much telemetry in reality, that it could replace a video or a proper engineering cam. Having telemetry already means that you expected some kind of failure and this expectation is much more specific than the expectations behind a camera.

Nothing can replace your Mark 1 sensors, so you should utilize them.
 

Loru

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Cameras are just candy anyway. Telemetry tells you way more than video.

Remeber 1986?? I think camera footage of black smoke helped to identify issue.

---------- Post added at 09:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:23 AM ----------

Both telemetry data and camera footage are important. sometimes single image can tell you more than thousands numbers from telemetry data.
 

Kyle

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jcliving

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Spacex was the first commercial company to deliver cargo to the ISS. It is likely Spacex will be the first commercial company to send a crew to orbit. It is impossible to overestimate the value of these statements to the general public and to space enthusiast that do not work within the space industry segment.
 

RGClark

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Spacex was the first commercial company to deliver cargo to the ISS. It is likely Spacex will be the first commercial company to send a crew to orbit. It is impossible to overestimate the value of these statements to the general public and to space enthusiast that do not work within the space industry segment.

Welcome to the forum, JC.

Bob
 

Urwumpe

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Spacex was the first commercial company to deliver cargo to the ISS. It is likely Spacex will be the first commercial company to send a crew to orbit. It is impossible to overestimate the value of these statements to the general public and to space enthusiast that do not work within the space industry segment.

Again - is that a surprise with THAT large budget? :lol:

How much better is SpaceX than Orbital Sciences? Except by using approximately 8 times higher budgets.
 

RGClark

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Definitely true, but having seen that video (if you can call it that), I actually noticed a couple interesting things. And I was wondering if anyone noticed a couple things themselves...

...should/could a discussion like this (landing) be in another thread? It's sufficiently interesting to qualify, I think.


I couldn't decipher anything useful in the fragmented video. What did you see?

Bob Clark

---------- Post added at 12:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

If you look at what NASA did in the 60s, this video is pretty disappointing. Even storing HD video on a microSD card would have worked better than this.


I wonder if the difference is the Apollo missions could afford to use powerful transmitters on the vehicles and use large antennas on the ground to pick up the signals.

Bob Clark
 

Donamy

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Urwumpe

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I wonder if the difference is the Apollo missions could afford to use powerful transmitters on the vehicles and use large antennas on the ground to pick up the signals.

LOL... what do you think about the technology back then?

NASA attached small analog film cameras in stable capsules, which separated from the stages during test flights and had been recovered after the mission. This provided the famous film sequences of Saturn V rockets during flight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJIY4n5oXjc

Notice the difference in quality?

At that time, the capacity of telemetry streams was in a few 100 bits per second. The Saturn V downlinked just about 200 measurements to NASA - transmitted 12 times per second.

The Space Shuttle already transmitted over 2000 measurements to the ground. A real time data HD video feed was impossible even in the 1980s.

Today, you can transmit and receive this with small antennas, thanks to modern computer technology, which made things like error correction codes possible and thus, breaking past the walls of Shannon's theorem, while also operating at much higher frequencies as possible back then.

Even small university satellite projects have better camera downlinks from space than SpaceX had.

And SpaceX has already bigger budgets than some manned NASA programs
 

ISProgram

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I couldn't decipher anything useful in the fragmented video. What did you see?

I made a thread for that now. But basically, it showed the last minutes of the landing, and I noted a few (blurry) things.

1) It seemed to have "hoverslammed". It freefell for most of the way down after deploying its legs at some point before refiring the engine at the last possible moment. We see the plume of water the M1D makes when it relights.
2) I see the stage tipping over. At the very end of the video, a patch of horizon can be seen.

Even if you can't clearly make out the video, it still has things to tell us, even if it is pixelated :censored: at the moment.
 
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ISProgram

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So they can't deploy their cloud of expensive space junk fragments? Oh darn...

Technically, KickSat was put in the orbit because it would deorbit relatively quickly. Which, now, unfortunately, is the problem. That would have solved any Spite debris concern very fast.

As for the Sprites themselves...
KickSprite_sm.jpg

To think a couple of these crackers are expensive in space. Something like $75,000, I think. But don't forget, this launched on a SpaceX Falcon 9, with the lowest prices in the (american) launch market.

It make you think, what would happen if it launched on a Atlas V? In which case, it be a cloud of incredibly expensive cracker fragments. :)
 
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