Any interest in a linux port (not wine)?

[ace]

Hi,

I see that the Orbiter is reported to run on linux under wine. I'm wondering if anybody has any interest in a "true" linux port for Orbiter? I'd be willing to volunteer my time to make it happen.

The benefit of a true linux port would be to make the Orbiter available to folks who don't want to or can't shell out extra money for an operating system. Also, it would make Orbiter more readily available to a wider audience of potential users. While running on linux under wine is a viable option, it is (or was) reported to have a few glitches and you'll never be able to get the best performance in that configuration.

Of course doing this would require access to the Orbiter source code. I'm not sure if that is something Dr. Schweiger is willing to do? Does anyone know if Dr. Schweiger would consider this?

Best regards and thanks for such a great piece of software!
-ace

 

[orb]

About the ports to other platforms, listen to FOI interview of Martin Schweiger starting from 00:39:00.

 

[kamaz]

Another problem is that many add-ons include compiled DLLs, which would have to be ported as well.

 

[Zachstar]

With OVP there is no need for a port.

 

[Enjo]

I'm fine with Wine. It runs fast and without too many glitches on latest DX9 clients and Orbiter BETA. I can even compile addons under Linux. It takes some time, but it's Wine's fault this time, because it doesn't react on persistent wineserver.

 

[garyw]

The benefit of a true linux port would be to make the Orbiter available to folks who don't want to or can't shell out extra money for an operating system

Most PC's come supplied with a Windows based operating system thanks to deals between the hardware suppliers and Microsoft. Trying to get a true naked PC is almost impossible.

Secondly, Don't forget that Orbiter is very directx focused which, of course, linux doesn't have.

 

[Lucy]

Most PC's come supplied with a Windows based operating system thanks to deals between the hardware suppliers and Microsoft. Trying to get a true naked PC is almost impossible.

True - unless you build your own with a new hard drive.

Secondly, Don't forget that Orbiter is very directx focused which, of course, linux doesn't have.

True - for the versions of Orbiter before the graphics engine split. Orbiter_ng could, theoretically, be ported to run under linux as it contains just the simulation engine, and connected to the OpenGL client - but this effectively means managing and maintaining an additional codebase, and as Martin says in the interview, it's probably not something he'd enjoy doing.

 

[Artlav]

At some point i wanted to make a native OGLAClient in Linux connecting to a Wine-run Orbiter_ng.

It didn't quite work as expected.

First try is here:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=7751

Then it evolved into a network OGLAClient, with the graphics part running on a Linux (or any other) machine, and the Orbiter core running on a Windows one.
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=10643

Also didn't quite work past a prototype.

I was also playing about with an idea of running Orbiter as a terminal program with ASCII graphics:

But that does not provide anything conceptually different.

Full thread here:
http://www.orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?t=20261

So, it's not an issue add-on developers can solve.
But, at the same time, graphics are not the main stop point either.

Most PC's come supplied with a Windows based operating system thanks to deals between the hardware suppliers and Microsoft. Trying to get a true naked PC is almost impossible.

Huh?
Are there any people left that buy PCs pre-assembled by a vendor?
I don't even know where to buy one like that, here it's either buy pieces & assemble, or pay someone who knows how to buy the pieces & assemble.

Ofcourse, there are laptops, and only half of them go with FreeDOS even here.

 

[MeDiCS]

Huh?
Are there any people left that buy PCs pre-assembled by a vendor?
I don't even know where to buy one like that, here it's either buy pieces & assemble, or pay someone who knows how to buy the pieces & assemble.

Not where I live. The norm here (for non-techies) is to buy PCs assembled by big national, or international companies.

 

[Zachstar]

Maybe if Wine did not take a college degree in command line and config file use it would be easier to run Orbiter on it.

Yet, That is Wine's deal. Linux and Mac users ought to focus their efforts on convincing Wine to better support Orbiter on their platforms in my opinion.

 

[orb]

Maybe if Wine did not take a college degree in command line and config file use it would be easier to run Orbiter on it.

But it doesn't require anything like that. After the wine has been deployed in the user's folder (for example with simply just running winecfg), you install on it Visual C++ runtimes and optionally DirectX (you can do both with winetricks' GUI), unpack or install Orbiter, and then you just run it.

 

[Linguofreak]

Huh?
Are there any people left that buy PCs pre-assembled by a vendor?
I don't even know where to buy one like that, here it's either buy pieces & assemble, or pay someone who knows how to buy the pieces & assemble.

In North America, at the very least, the vast majority of computers are bought from vendors (even in Russia, I'm willing to bet that businesses do it that way). Only the technically savvy build their own computers.

Ofcourse, there are laptops, and only half of them go with FreeDOS even here.

Wait, half of all *laptops* sell with *FreeDOS* over there? :blink:

FreeDOS has great hobby value (especially if you feel nostalgic about old DOS games), so it's great for an end-of-life repurposing of a desktop or even an after-market dual-boot on a laptop, and I could even see it having some value for running legacy business software, where I could see it being sold with desktops in a niche market (Dell does sell one or two models with FreeDOS installed, but no laptops, AFAIK, and nothing near half their product line in any category), but I have a hard time seeing why a laptop would be sold with it. If people are trying to avoid Windows, I'd think some *nix or other would be the go-to thing (multitasking FTW!).

That said, I've thought of a number of interesting (although, for the most part, probably practically useless) projects that could be implemented on top of FreeDOS, such as a free Win16 implementation that integrated well with it. (Useful because vanilla Windows 3.1 runs, but does not run well, on top of FreeDOS. Useless because Win16 was crap to begin with, and because Wine and 32-bit MS Windows provide back-compatible Win16 implementations anyways).

 

[Artlav]

I have a hard time seeing why a laptop would be sold with it

It's a way of saying that the laptop is sold without an OS.
Since you can't technically sell one that does not work, they usually put something like FreeDOS on it.
Checked several online shops - seems it's closer to a quarter now, rest is Windows.

even in Russia, I'm willing to bet that businesses do it that way

Small business do it the same way - i earned my first money piecing computers together for people and small firms, back in early 2000's.
Larger businesses might do it the same way - where i work now all computers are put together from parts, but we are a computer development centre.

There are store-bought computers here - you can find a stand of them occasionally in electronics shops. They usually stand out, being covered with advertisement stickers and things like that, that nobody bothers to remove.
I see them occasionally in the wild, but these are rare occasions.
And even those are branded with local firms.
Only ones with big brands are nettops.

 

[mojoey]

I was also playing about with an idea of running Orbiter as a terminal program with ASCII graphics:

But that does not provide anything conceptually different.

Oh man those hurt my eyes.

If you were to beef up the resolution, you might get away with a decent product. The MFDs don't really look useable, though it is kinda interesting.