Launch News SpaceX Falcon 9 v1.2 with SES-9 March 4 2016

Thunder Chicken

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Video of the landing approach. Really poor quality video.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-3QN1NffFvs"]SpaceX SES-9 landing attempt - YouTube[/ame]
 

Urwumpe

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And I told them... don't do something stupid while I am away.

Children....
 

RisingFury

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Ok, that does look like a miss. I wasn't sure watching the webcast. It's possible the rocket attempted to correct and then had a high horizontal velocity. We'll see when SpaceX releases the video.

This isn't encouraging, though. I kinda thought they would have had it this time.
 

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They said a successful landing was not expected due to the ascent/mission profile
 

boogabooga

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Geostationary missions account for most commercial launches. I hope they plan to be successful with first stage recovery for this type of profile in the future.
 

RisingFury

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Why? SpaceX even said of all their attempts, this was the most likely to fail.

They said that, yes, but I can smell the PR when I see it.

What's worrying me is that the stage looks like it missed the spot. If that's the case, that's a guidance issue.
 

ADSWNJ

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They said that, yes, but I can smell the PR when I see it.

What's worrying me is that the stage looks like it missed the spot. If that's the case, that's a guidance issue.

It's all just data input to refine the solution. You continue to work through unexpected events until you solve it. (Same as my auto-land algorithm problems on Glideslope 2 LOL!!!)

Like these guys say:

“I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.”
― Thomas A. Edison

“There is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve: the fear of failure.”
― Paulo Coelho, The Alchemist

“There is something good in all seeming failures. You are not to see that now. Time will reveal it. Be patient.”
― Sivananda Saraswati




Oh and the little Merlin that can... got that SES-9 up to a 40,610.6km apogee ... overachieving the stretch target for the customer. Awesome job.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:02 PM ----------

I was thinking about the super-sync orbit and why that's a good thing. Right now, SES-9 is in a 40,610.6 x 340.7 km orbit, inc 27.9 degrees, headed to a 35,786 x 35,786 x 0.00 Inc. So it needs to kick the plane by 27.9 degrees (i.e. pretty significant), and then drop the ApA a bit and raise the PeA. As we Orbinauts know, plane changes are heavy dV relative to PeA changes. For a min dV, you want to make the plane change at the Apogee where your velocity is at the lowest (as opposed to at a node where you would normally do it).

Question for the quidance experts on the forum: what's the optimal GTO apogee to minimize the mission dV to a circularized GSO? I.e. at some point, the savings from plane change at t a higher altitude are offset by the higher dV to get to that high a GTO. Where's the optimal point?

(For real life, the limit is also driven by the capabilities of the second stage, and the reduced separation mass once the SES-9 is on its own.)
 

RisingFury

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I don't think the problem is in the algorithm or data analysis, I think it's in data acquisition. Orbiter is easy, it gives you perfect data.

That said, it could also just be a hardware fault again. Or the miss didn't actually happen, but it just looks that way. We'll have to see when SpaceX releases the video.
 

Donamy

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They really don't need alot of DV, just point in the right direction to change plane over time, ... they have alot of that.
 

boogabooga

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I was thinking about the super-sync orbit and why that's a good thing. Right now, SES-9 is in a 40,610.6 x 340.7 km orbit, inc 27.9 degrees, headed to a 35,786 x 35,786 x 0.00 Inc. So it needs to kick the plane by 27.9 degrees (i.e. pretty significant), and then drop the ApA a bit and raise the PeA. As we Orbinauts know, plane changes are heavy dV relative to PeA changes. For a min dV, you want to make the plane change at the Apogee where your velocity is at the lowest (as opposed to at a node where you would normally do it).

Question for the quidance experts on the forum: what's the optimal GTO apogee to minimize the mission dV to a circularized GSO? I.e. at some point, the savings from plane change at t a higher altitude are offset by the higher dV to get to that high a GTO. Where's the optimal point?

(For real life, the limit is also driven by the capabilities of the second stage, and the reduced separation mass once the SES-9 is on its own.)

Good question, but for SES-9 the issue is complicated by the fact that it will be using ion thrusters for circularization. From what I have read, the spacecraft maintains a fixed inertial attitude and burns continuously such that it is raising perigee over half of the orbit and lowering apogee over half of the orbit. That is why the initial transfer is supersynchronous.

I've seen on other launches (especially with Atlas V) in which excess booster delta-V is used to raise perigee rather than apogee. So transfer orbits of 35,786 km x 5,000 km or so. So, it may be that the super-synchronous transfer isn't too advantageous for satellites not using ion thrusters.
 

ADSWNJ

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Good question, but for SES-9 the issue is complicated by the fact that it will be using ion thrusters for circularization. From what I have read, the spacecraft maintains a fixed inertial attitude and burns continuously such that it is raising perigee over half of the orbit and lowering apogee over half of the orbit. That is why the initial transfer is supersynchronous.

I've seen on other launches (especially with Atlas V) in which excess booster delta-V is used to raise perigee rather than apogee. So transfer orbits of 35,786 km x 5,000 km or so. So, it may be that the super-synchronous transfer isn't too advantageous for satellites not using ion thrusters.


I found this site: https://web.archive.org/web/20141012225636/http://www.boeing.com/boeing/defense-space/ic/sis/features.page

which indicates that SES-9 has a liquid engine of 445N and ion engines of 4x 22N axial and 4 x 10N radial (i.e. Lin and Rot thrusters for we the Orbitnauts!). Regardess - the acceleration is so tiny on a 5200kg vessel that I can see why they need 45 days of continuous thrust to raise it.

Do you have any more info on the circularization and plane burns that they are doing?
 

Urwumpe

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which indicates that SES-9 has a liquid engine of 445N and ion engines of 4x 22N axial and 4 x 10N radial (i.e. Lin and Rot thrusters for we the Orbitnauts!). Regardess - the acceleration is so tiny on a 5200kg vessel that I can see why they need 45 days of continuous thrust to raise it.

Wrong coordinate system. Axial and Radial is relative to the fixed slot above Earth, not Rot/Lin. Another way to name the thrusters is N-S and E-W.
 

ADSWNJ

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Wrong coordinate system. Axial and Radial is relative to the fixed slot above Earth, not Rot/Lin. Another way to name the thrusters is N-S and E-W.

Oh interesting! Do you have any links to the configuration? Do they use gyros for rotational control instead of thrusters?
 

boogabooga

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Reference attached.
 

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  • GEOwithXIPS.pdf
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ADSWNJ

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Wow - so they can do multi-orbit inertially stable burns. It would be cool to play with that Boeing XIPSTOP tool, wouldn't it?
 
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