amso 1.17

[richard1967]

no worries i will do the appolo 11 and 8 and see if it's ok then i will let you know

 

[richard1967]

Hi iv'e tried it again with the same results as you i use jamos Free return from his site. once After the LOI burn i have about 54% of fuel then i use your tutorial and try to make the TEI burn alot earlier lol like say 1 moon orbit i will post the screenshots for you

 

[richard1967]

Forgot the last two if any has any ideas lol we would be most gratefull

 

[richard1967]

i wonder if shutting down the engines early say at 20% not sure just a guess

 

[richard1967]

oops sorry jarmo missed out the r lol sorry

 

[jarmonik]

Forgot the last two if any has any ideas lol we would be most gratefull

Sorry, I almost missed this thread. First of all the Simple Freereturn tutorial may not be the best for Apollo missions but of course it does show the basic procedure how to setup a TLI. For any apollo missions it is important that the Earth orbit is a correct. If you use AMSO/NASSP lift-off autopilot then there is no problem with initial Earth orbit.

When you have configured a TLI in a primary basis it is a good idea to proceed with "Offset Procedure"-tutorial in order to fine tune the Lunar approach. The "Offset Procedure" is distribured with IMFD and is also located in AMSO Manual.

Initial Offsets for apollo missions are located in a last page of IMFD Manual however, thay are not exactly correct due to a bug fix that caused a small changed into them and I haven't had time to rework them and they will become obsollete after the new programs I am working.

TEI burn must be executed approximately at a historical time. If you try to execute TEI immediately after LOI the Moon will not be in a correct alignment with the Earth and a re-entry/landing in a historical locations on the Earth will not be possible. Atleast not with historical flight times etc..

Some people do prefer using PlanetApproach instead of BaseApproach for TEI. It won't take landing location as an input parameter but when the inclination, time of flight and the time of TEI are correct then so must be the landing location.

I'll post a screen shot using PlanetApproach

 

[jarmonik]

BTW, In a last two screen shots you shoud still increase "Hint" to find more fuel efficient flight.

Also, you may need to fine tune "Lat" Latitude setting. A small change +-1deg in "Lat" may cause significant effect in other parameters especially in EqI and dV. Also new fligth opportunities might become valid.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Priceless

This is priceless information Jarmo. You are a gentleman and a schollar.
I will try to fix my tutorial soon.

To: richard1967

Your screenies are great! I have some questions:
(if you can answer them all by number)

1. Are you using IMFD v5.1d, e, f, or g?
(I am using IMFDv 5.1d) I dont know if this will make any differenc or not but I think it just might play a role in how your doing it and Im not yet)

2. Which version of AMSO are you using, 1.17 or AMSO 1.16?
(I am not able to do the flight and get home when I use 1.17 I was able to do it in 1.16)

3. Are you setting the Lumbart AP mode to: IMFD, or ApolloP30? (This is located in the configuration menu of IMFD).

4. What is your AB auto RCS threashold set to? (1 is the default.)

5. What is your AB throttle down amount? (15 is the default. In the scenario I took my numbers in the AMSO Apollo 11 AS-506 scenarios of AMSO 1.16, it was set to 30. I set mine to 0 because I am trying to see what this does to the flight. I believe Apollo had clear cut-offs when the burn finished so this is why I set this to 0. The burns cutoff very quick without any small burns at the end. This also lets me KNOW that my burn time in the Burn Vector will BE that amount of time and no longer).
Also,

6. Are you using the complex flight model?

7. Are you using Nonspherical gravity?

8. Are you using Gravity-gradient torque?

Depending on the answers above I will then be asking if your Apollo 11 flight is capable of getting back to earh on the fuel you have after rendezvous with the LM.

which is the original thread topic lol.

Thanks to both of you geniouses.

 

[jarmonik]

One more thing.. Don't forget to detach the LM before TEI. It must be left in a Lunar orbit.

 

[richard1967]

1. Are you using IMFD v5.1d, e, f, or g?
(I am using IMFDv 5.1d) I dont know if this will make any differenc or not but I think it just might play a role in how your doing it and Im not yet)

I'm using IMFDv 1.5 g

2. Which version of AMSO are you using, 1.17 or AMSO 1.16?
(I am not able to do the flight and get home when I use 1.17 I was able to do it in 1.16)

I'm using Amso 1.17

3. Are you setting the Lumbart AP mode to: IMFD, or ApolloP30? (This is located in the configuration menu of IMFD).

yes using the Appolop30

4. What is your AB auto RCS threashold set to? (1 is the default.)

Default

5. What is your AB throttle down amount? (15 is the default. In the scenario I took my numbers in the AMSO Apollo 11 AS-506 scenarios of AMSO 1.16, it was set to 30. I set mine to 0 because I am trying to see what this does to the flight. I believe Apollo had clear cut-offs when the burn finished so this is why I set this to 0. The burns cutoff very quick without any small burns at the end. This also lets me KNOW that my burn time in the Burn Vector will BE that amount of time and no longer).
Also,

Will try that later. I've been using the default

6. Are you using the complex flight model?

Yep

7. Are you using Nonspherical gravity?

No

8. Are you using Gravity-gradient torque?

No

i will do the Appolo 11 flight again using the tips from jarmo aswell


I've learned allot from you and jarmo thanks your top men on these boards

 

[jarmonik]

Ok, Here is a screen shot of TEI using PlanetApproach. The essential information is displayed in a third MFD window running Map program. All MFDs are shared with ID-0, except the ID-0 it self.

Setting up the TEI for this way relies on information displayed in a Map program not in a PlanetApproach. Also the Map program displays the location of the entry interface not splash-down location

Also it's a good idea to set the TEj of PlanetApproach equal to the TEj of Orbit-Eject.

Example of PlanetApproach configuration for Apollo-11:

Set EqI = -45 (Effects mostly in Hed and EqI in a Map)
Set PeA = 2.768M (Effects mostly in PeA in a Map)
Set GET = GET 197:17:00 (Effects mostly in GET of periapis and Lon in a map)
Set TEj = Equal to Orbit-Eject

 

[jarmonik]

Quote:
7. Are you using Nonspherical gravity?
No

Non-spherical gravity should be turned on. Otherwice IMFD won't work as it should.

 

[richard1967]

thanks jarmo will try the lanet approach. But on the Amso 1.17 for the appolo 11 sceario TEI they have used the base approach which is the best way to set that up. Not sure which would be the best as planet approach i keep burning up and the base approach you can set your re-entry angle ??

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Hey now were getting down to the nitty gritty

Hey now were getting down to the nitty gritty!!

Hell YA!!! Jarmo, Thanks a whole bunch for that. This looks like were on the cutting edge of AMSO 1.17 info and IMFD 5.1g help.

These posts are one small step for an MFD, One giant leap for the entire Orbiter community.

 

[jarmonik]

Not sure which would be the best as planet approach i keep burning up and the base approach you can set your re-entry angle ??

Yes that's true. But the re-entry angle is directly related into a perigee altitude. In a screen shot I have a re-entry angle of 6.5deg in a Map program and that will be archived with the perigee altitude of 36.2km

 

[richard1967]

thanks jarmo just gonna try it now and i must say your software is a treasure to have keep up the good work my friend

 

[richard1967]

ey now were getting down to the nitty gritty!!

Hell YA!!! Jarmo, Thanks a whole bunch for that. This looks like were on the cutting edge of AMSO 1.17 info and IMFD 5.1g help.

These posts are one small step for an MFD, One giant leap for the entire Orbiter community.

F*#k an A bubba.

 

[richard1967]

A bit of topic but when your doing a mission. Do you get historical radio chatter i.e reminding you of the next mission steps I mean if your on the moon and your getting close to your acent time will they remind you to prepare for the accent

bit daft i know just a thought

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

Not Daft

Not Daft

I am pretty sure that there is no radio comms from Houston warning you when your supposed to enter into the Powered Decent window. If you have engaged the AP for DOI then it begins to give info.

With the new AMSO Apollo 12 Sound pack, you will have slightly different comms from Houston when you get near the end. The regular AMSO sound for Apollo 11 are very good.
When you get down to the end of the PDI you will get some comms that talk about your closeness to the surface.


All other timmings as far as when to do the DOI and PDI are shown when you press "K" and switch through the menu and functions there.
One is Check PDI conditions I think. I have yet to fully document what needs to happen and when but you can be sure I will make another Apollo 11 Full Historical Flight Tutorial when I get the flight done.
This tutorial will have a warning on it telling new readers that although the tutorial will be good to complete the lunar mission for Apollo 11, it will seriously hinder any discovery process they may normally encounter if they were to try and learn how to do it themselves.
Learning the process was half the fun for me.

Hey by the way Check out this document for doing what jarmo is recommending I do for the Apollo 11 flight. This is the entire timeline:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4029/Apollo_11i_Timeline.htm
(chews on his popcorn)

Its got all the actual times things were done in GET which I can find out what actual date and UT time that corresponds to in orbiter and compare it to Wiki's sight. (chews on popcorn some more). I think we found the motherload.
Lets just make sure we dont screw the pooch!

Ill be up with the dawn patrol tomorrow morning in the sims to try these numbers out. (chews popcorn)
Semper Fi. (chews his popcorn some more)

Anyone else here get a feeling and a sence of pride in the human condition and its ability to overcome boundries and set fourth a sence of goodwill towards all through discovery?

Exploration regardless of which state these men happen to be nationals of, they set out to do a job and they got it done. Im hella proud of these guys. This kinda flying takes cahones' if you will pardon the phrase.

Jose Jimez say -oh no. I wonder if they are gonna make me an astronaught.

 

[polaris149Tiberius]

On station!

On station!
"Well you can kiss those Imperial Slugs goodbye. I told you we'd outrun them. This ship might look like shes got it but she still has some moves left in her.... Well dont everyone thank me at once"
-Han Solo -S.W. IV -A New Hope 1972

I have completed the Apollo 11 flight with all the moves and burn ignitions etc.... the same as the actual flight timeline given in my previous post -doing all the times as close to the actual times that Nasa did in Apollo 11 will help in some ways and help you to learn how to change things according to a time line.

I liked it. There are some tricks I have found that can make the times fit the actual flight very tightly but some of the numbers, I am still not able to fine tune the Ejections and target arrivals to be perfect.

I can get very close to both the arrival to the moon of what appears to be 75:54:29
-OR- (by my calculations )
75:53:19
but acceptable to be between 75:49:50 and 75:55:49.90 hours.

This arrival time no matter what you do en route is essential to land at the time given of 102:45:39. and Im sure for location etc.

I can land at about the same time and so on. I also finally re-entered at the correct recovery zone for the first time ever!!

Ok Ill be back gotta get this done.

This is fine with me. I may be on to discovering how to get AMSO to fly the times Apollo 11 flew to within 14 min en route and about 30 hour early when getting back to the earth.

I did however have enough fuel to slow myself down to a more reasonable 13 min different on the last MCC. I think I arrive to reentry around 195:16:00 or so and Apollo 11 arrives for re-entry at 195:03:05.

This puts my flight I think through most of it about 13 min off somehow.
Ok well its time for me to post this flight in detail so people can check my numbers and see if it works across the board.
I'd like to find a way to tell ppl how to "fix up" thier flights so as to trim up the flight for more of a basic schedule of when to do stuff based either on the GET or some other timming.
Ill keep you guys posted,
Just give me another test run. I'll recreate my flight as best as possible and then document what I did to make the times match up, report on the time differences and why I think they were different and so on. This will be the Iron Maiden of AMSO/IMFD threads.

Not bad for a CIS major who never completed High School ya?
Be right back.