Apollo 7 - Historical Mission folder scenarios and MCC / RTCC MFD

thermocalc

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dears,
I am using NASSP v7 on Orbiter 2010P1 and Apollo 7 scenarios as saved at different mission times under the "Apollo Historical Mission / Apollo 7" folders for trials/understanding before to attempt a full mission from T -3h to Launch using the scenario "Apollo 7 Virtual AGC LVDC++ MCC - Launch".
Within each scenarios I am following the instructions in the ApolloChecklists MFD as they come along.
I am also using the "Apollo 7 RTCC MFD Input Parameters" doc file in the DOC folder.
when time for a burn comes I got the yellow PADs...and I am following the instructions up to burn completed. BUT I have some doubts/questions?
Q1) are these PADs "real", meaning the numbers displayed are taking care where the CSM really is at that GET time in the Simulation OR are some sort of "historical PADs values red up to the crew during the real flight?
Q2) if they are REAL, why if I try to enter the data for the approaching maneuver as described in the doc file using the RTCC MFD I got different numbers? especially for the R/P/Y angles they are massive different?
Q3) so if I want to use step by step scenarios under the "Apollo Historical Mission / Apollo 7" can I thrust the yellow PADs as they come OR do I need to calculate by myself each PAD using the RTCC MFD?
thank you for any clarification, highly appreciated any help/comments.
Paolo
 

indy91

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Q1) are these PADs "real", meaning the numbers displayed are taking care where the CSM really is at that GET time in the Simulation OR are some sort of "historical PADs values red up to the crew during the real flight?

They are calculated from the actual trajectories in the simulation and should be usable.

Q2) if they are REAL, why if I try to enter the data for the approaching maneuver as described in the doc file using the RTCC MFD I got different numbers? especially for the R/P/Y angles they are massive different?

Small differences aren't unexpected, if the RTCC MFD calculation was done a bit earlier or later than the MCC. The R/P/Y angles are relative to the current alignment of the IMU. The RTCC MFD uses the launch alignment by default, but later in the mission the reference for the alignment, the REFSMMAT, gets changed a few times. So to "sync" the RTCC MFD and the IMU you have to update the REFSMMAT in the RTCC MFD. That is done with the DWN button on the REFSMMAT page of the RTCC MFD. That "downlinks" the REFSMMAT from the AGC to the RTCC MFD and then the IMU angles will hopefully better agree between MCC and RTCC MFD.

Q3) so if I want to use step by step scenarios under the "Apollo Historical Mission / Apollo 7" can I thrust the yellow PADs as they come OR do I need to calculate by myself each PAD using the RTCC MFD?
thank you for any clarification, highly appreciated any help/comments.
Paolo

The concept for the two separate launch scenarios (MCC and non-MCC) is that the MCC scenarios do all the calculations for you. That's the yellow PADs and uplinks that are automatically generated. If you use the non-MCC scenarios you will have to use the RTCC MFD and those instructions for it. The Mission Scenarios were all flown using the MCC, so you should be able to rely on the PADs, but that doesn't prevent you from using the RTCC MFD of course.
 

thermocalc

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thank you again Indy91.
now everything is clearer, I will try the procedure you mentioned and for the sake to learn to use the RTCC MDF I will try to re-do the calculations step by step as they came along, knowing now that I can "thrust" the yellow PADs, this will be useful for me once moving to NASSP v8 for Apollo 9 and so on...thanks.
cheers, Paolo
 

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I have some more questions about the use of the RTCC MDF for planning mnvr or for backup help in case i screw up some SV during the missions...
I am running both Apollo7 and Apollo8 mission in parallel to don't get too much frustrated and to see how far I can go to understand all what developed so far...

Q1) in A7 or A8 when a maneuver is approaching I got the uplink message to update the state vector and so far so good, the question is: suppose that before to make the maneuver or before making a P22 or P23 sighting task I want to upload again a fresh SV (not historically correct but for the sake of a simulation session a possible action to perform) in this case I cannot get another uplink from the ground with MCC (isn't it? or is there a way in the COMM menu to ask MCC to upload again a new SV at any time in the mission if I request it?) so I can get a SV from ApolloMD or RTCC MFD ... the question is: is the SV (which are the position and velocity components of the spacecraft) dependent on the reference system used at that time in the mission? -> as Indy91 said, before to try to get a PAD mnvr solution using RTCC I should download the REFSMMAT being used to the RTCC MFD as by default it retains the launch configuration...is it necessary to download it also before to ask for a SV updated? and what about if I ask for a SV update using ProjectApolloMFD?) ... which the best correct procedure to get a "fresh" SV update at any time ?

Q2) in Apollo8, after CSM/LV separation in the checklist for the evasive maneuver it is said "mnvr to local vertical (+X towards Erath) maintaining SIVB in CDR window - thrust -X (away from Earth) -1.5 fps) ..... not clear what I am supposed to do.
I can see the SIVB in front of me looking from the rendezvous window on the left (CDR window) keeping it in the center of the crosshair of the COAS...but the X axis is not directed radially toward the Earth .... if I rotate the craft X axis to point the Earth I can see the Earth centered in the COAS but the SIVB is less than 90 degree on the right/left of me so to speak...so how can i see it through the "CDR window" if now I am pointing the center of the Earth? what I am doing wrong? in which attitude I should be to start the evasive maneuver?

Q3) I tried P22 in Apollo 7 and I managed to do/understand it partially, maybe a deep question will come later, but for P23 I am still puzzled; I look around in the forum and I saw some treats about P23 mostly for Apollo8, so for a moment I decided to stop doing P23 on Apollo7 and try to do it on Apollo8 until I don't fully understand it...indeed sometime I got deltaR and deltaV less than 50...so it gave me hope, but there is something that I would like to understand:
what does it means "reinitialize the cislunar W-matrix"? I "loosely" understood that this matrix is a kind of "error matrix" between real position/velocity vectors in the AGC and the ones deduced by making a marking sequence....so the target to get deltaR and deltaV as close as possible to zero to minimize the error --- if it is so, why do we need to "reinitialize it" before to make measurements? clearly it looks to me that this W matrix is not just and error matrix of the type "Error"="SV by marking sequence" - "SV onboard of the AGC" ... so it also means that the deltaR and deltaV values in N49 are NOT the components of the W matrix (after all it should be a 3x3 matrix so it should have 9 components) .... so what does it represent? and why at some point in the check list it is stated that it is reinitialized to the launch pad values (V67E R1+00094, R2+00057, R3+0003) and than there is V93E... what these numbers in R1, R2, R3 means? and where are they come from? if with V67E i can set some numbers into the W matrix, when I do V93E to "reinitialize" it what's happen inside the W matrix? all components set to zero?

thank you for any help.
Paolo
 

indy91

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Q1) in A7 or A8 when a maneuver is approaching I got the uplink message to update the state vector and so far so good, the question is: suppose that before to make the maneuver or before making a P22 or P23 sighting task I want to upload again a fresh SV (not historically correct but for the sake of a simulation session a possible action to perform) in this case I cannot get another uplink from the ground with MCC (isn't it? or is there a way in the COMM menu to ask MCC to upload again a new SV at any time in the mission if I request it?)

Unfortunately you can't request a fresh state vector from the MCC. It can only repeat the last uplink (of any type) it did. But that seems like a useful feature, maybe I'll implement that some time.

so I can get a SV from ApolloMD or RTCC MFD ... the question is: is the SV (which are the position and velocity components of the spacecraft) dependent on the reference system used at that time in the mission?

Yes, the AGC either keeps a Earth or a Moon referenced state vector. The uplinked state vectors will be in the reference system you are currently in. But it wouldn't matter if it was the wrong reference system, as one of the uplinked numbers with the state vector is the ID of the reference system (-2 = LM moon-centered, -1 = LM earth centered, 1 = CSM earth-centered, 2 = CSM moon-centered) of that uplinked state vector. So the AGC would be able to convert it. Basically, you don't need to worry about the reference, the MFDs and and the AGC are handling it.

-> as Indy91 said, before to try to get a PAD mnvr solution using RTCC I should download the REFSMMAT being used to the RTCC MFD as by default it retains the launch configuration...is it necessary to download it also before to ask for a SV updated? and what about if I ask for a SV update using ProjectApolloMFD?) ... which the best correct procedure to get a "fresh" SV update at any time ?

Both the Project Apollo MFD and the RTCC MFD are fine to use for state vector updates. The PAMFD might be a bit simpler for this, the RTCC MFD gives you more options.

Q2) in Apollo8, after CSM/LV separation in the checklist for the evasive maneuver it is said "mnvr to local vertical (+X towards Erath) maintaining SIVB in CDR window - thrust -X (away from Earth) -1.5 fps) ..... not clear what I am supposed to do. I can see the SIVB in front of me looking from the rendezvous window on the left (CDR window) keeping it in the center of the crosshair of the COAS...but the X axis is not directed radially toward the Earth .... if I rotate the craft X axis to point the Earth I can see the Earth centered in the COAS but the SIVB is less than 90 degree on the right/left of me so to speak...so how can i see it through the "CDR window" if now I am pointing the center of the Earth? what I am doing wrong? in which attitude I should be to start the evasive maneuver?

You point the CSM at the Earth and then roll it so that you can still see the S-IVB, so the windows pointing in the direction of the S-IVB. A bit hard to see from the 2D cockpit windows, so the important part is that you are pointing the pointy end of the CSM directly at the Earth :)

Q3) I tried P22 in Apollo 7 and I managed to do/understand it partially, maybe a deep question will come later, but for P23 I am still puzzled; I look around in the forum and I saw some treats about P23 mostly for Apollo8, so for a moment I decided to stop doing P23 on Apollo7 and try to do it on Apollo8 until I don't fully understand it...indeed sometime I got deltaR and deltaV less than 50...so it gave me hope, but there is something that I would like to understand:
what does it means "reinitialize the cislunar W-matrix"? I "loosely" understood that this matrix is a kind of "error matrix" between real position/velocity vectors in the AGC and the ones deduced by making a marking sequence....so the target to get deltaR and deltaV as close as possible to zero to minimize the error --- if it is so, why do we need to "reinitialize it" before to make measurements? clearly it looks to me that this W matrix is not just and error matrix of the type "Error"="SV by marking sequence" - "SV onboard of the AGC" ... so it also means that the deltaR and deltaV values in N49 are NOT the components of the W matrix (after all it should be a 3x3 matrix so it should have 9 components) .... so what does it represent? and why at some point in the check list it is stated that it is reinitialized to the launch pad values (V67E R1+00094, R2+00057, R3+0003) and than there is V93E... what these numbers in R1, R2, R3 means? and where are they come from? if with V67E i can set some numbers into the W matrix, when I do V93E to "reinitialize" it what's happen inside the W matrix? all components set to zero?

P23 on the actual Apollo 7 mission did not work well at all. It's included in the checklists for historical accuracy, but you won't get any good results. That technique just doesn't work well in Low Earth Orbit.

Some good explanations for this can be found in the original MIT documentation, for example here: https://www.ibiblio.org/apollo/NARA-SW/R-577-sec5-rev4-start-5.2.pdf PDF pages 43+.

For the astronaut relevant is this:

-When you use V67 it calculates the current position and velocity error estimate and displays them as R1 and R2 in N99.
-But the main function of V67 is to change the re-initialization parameters for the W-Matrix. This doesn't change the W-Matrix itself, just those parameters.
-V93 recalculates the W-Matrix using those re-initialization parameters. Essentially that resets the current error estimate of the state vector.
-When you then do marks with P20, P22 or P23 the W-Matrix will change with each incorporated mark, usually (and hopefully) trending towards smaller errors.
 

thermocalc

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dear Indy,
thank you very much for you nice explanations and your time...something is clearer, and the doc is very interesting...I will print it and have a deep look, if still not clear how to handle it I will ask you again. :thumbup::cheers:
 
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