Request Artemis landers

[francisdrake]

Up to now only some concept art was published. I think the offer of SpaceX (or any other competior) was not disclosed - correct me, if I am wrong.

When looking back to the first pictures of the Mars Colonial Transport, that became BFR and then Starship, this changed quite a lot in size and performance. On the other hand, Starship is already flying, so the cornerstones of its design are determined. Still, all this on-orbit tanking is a far way to go, and reducing the number of tanker flights may be worth to improve mission reliability.

 

[cosmonaut2040]

I'd think that a SpaceX way to reduce the number of tanker flights would be to start sourcing LOx from lunar ice.
This way they can also take advantage of all that payload capacity to bring up excavators, electrolysis plants and personnel to operate them

 

[gattispilot]

Let me throw this out. MAybe someone can help.
A scenario using AMSO and the Dynethics lander
He gets this:

But I get this:

See in the top how the deep they are.

Fixed it should be AMSO

 

[Sbb1413]

Let me throw this out. MAybe someone can help.
A scenario using MASO and the Dynethics lander
He gets this:

But I get this:

See in the top how the deep they are.

What do you mean by "MASO"? Do you mean "AMSO"? IDK why the historic Apollo stuff are relevant with the ALPACA lander by Dynetics.

Edit: I have noticed that the rovers and the EVA suits are from AMSO. Therefore, AMSO is necessary for the EVA suits and rovers.

 

[kuddel]

I would compare these:
a) Orbiter version (both 2016?)
b) "Surface elevation" (both using "linear interpolation"?)

 

[Gargantua2024]

Let me throw this out. MAybe someone can help.
A scenario using MASO and the Dynethics lander
He gets this:

But I get this:

See in the top how the deep they are.

Not sure what causes the AMSO astronauts to sink on the ground, whilst ALPACA did not, but man that is brilliant!

 

[Jeremyxxx]

November 22nd is on the way for Orion's first flight around the Moon, and construction of the Moonship has yet to commence.

 

[Gargantua2024]

The ALPACA will no longer feature drop tanks as part of their Appendix N redesign, revealed in the Angry Astronaut's interview with Kathy Laurini:
EDIT: New link posted since the Angry Astronaut removed it and then reuploaded yesterday

 

[Gargantua2024]

I saw a comment on the Angry Astronaut's latest video about Dynetics which he proposed "Starship launching ALPACA". Of course a future partnership with SpaceX and Dynetics is still unlikely at this time, but a fully fueled ALPACA (on its 2020 design concept) can be transported to the Moon without refuelling the lander on the Gateway via Starship

 

[Gargantua2024]

Due to a new contract announced named the Lunar Exploration Transportation Services (LETS), the Starship HLS might not be used beyond Artemis 5. Given there is no plans to land astronauts during Artemis 4, the fate of the Starship used in the previous mission is somewhat vague

NASA foresees gap in lunar landings after Artemis 3 - SpaceNews

After landing astronauts on the moon in the mid-2020s, NASA will wait at least two more years before a second crewed Artemis lunar landing.

spacenews.com

 

[Kyle]

Honestly, the whole Artemis program after Artemis III seems so incredibly vague right now that I wouldn't jump to that conclusion.

 

[Gargantua2024]

I agree. Though if they plan to ditch the Starship used after Artemis 3 that would be a total waste.

NASA clearly planned to make Artemis 4 a Gateway-only mission dedicated in delivering I-HAB to the station. What happens for Artemis 5 and beyond is not clear

 

[Kyle]

I agree. Though if they plan to ditch the Starship used after Artemis 3 that would be a total waste.

NASA clearly planned to make Artemis 4 a Gateway-only mission dedicated in delivering I-HAB to the station. What happens for Artemis 5 and beyond is not clear

I sincerely doubt they're ditching Starship after Artemis III. The whole idea is "dissimilar redundancy".

It's more likely that NASA simply doesn't know what it's going to do after Artemis III. I wouldn't be surprised if Artemis IV ends up being the landing mission.

 

[barrygolden]

NASA dosent seem sure after Artemis 3 but looks like Artemis 4 might be a landing mission as well . they are plowing ahead with the gateway but the IHAB sounds like it's as big as a bathroom here on earth and the astronauts can't by by each other with out moving a little. So if Artemis 4 is a landing then no update on launching Gateway or on what. NASA is funded through Artemis 6 with start up money for 7-10 . I'm not getting a good feeling about Artemis being really long term
NASA seems to have changed its tone on Lunar Star ship but still going ahead with it but giving money to the other landers as well

 

[Gargantua2024]

NASA dosent seem sure after Artemis 3 but looks like Artemis 4 might be a landing mission as well ... So if Artemis 4 is a landing then no update on launching Gateway or on what.

Artemis 4 is a Gateway/Landing mission as of 2022-Oct-30
https://spacenews.com/lunar-landing-restored-for-artemis-4-mission/

...they are plowing ahead with the gateway but the IHAB sounds like it's as big as a bathroom here on earth and the astronauts can't by by each other with out moving a little.

To be fair, Artemis by design wasn't really supposed to make the crew stay very long on the Gateway anyway if each of the primary missions are to be taking place on the lunar south pole...It's only meant as a stopover of some sort

NASA is funded through Artemis 6 with start up money for 7-10 . I'm not getting a good feeling about Artemis being really long term.

Possibly, but the Artemis Program's advantage over Apollo is that it has international/commercial support (in terms of finances) behind it, I think that makes it harder for any government to cancel that as easily as Apollo did

NASA seems to have changed its tone on Lunar Star ship but still going ahead with it but giving money to the other landers as well

Well we can't blame them, but my wild guess is that they're also awaiting the results of Starship's Orbital Flight Test. Yes, the lack of substantial HLS and even regular Starship updates in the past year is concerning, but then if there's only static fire tests going on, I don't see why it is even worth the (public) announcement as they have done that before even Starhopper or SN8 flew.

If the Starship OFT goes well by NET Feb/Mar (or any other month) 2023, then we have a very high chance that we will hear those sweet updates we desperately needed for the HLS and on how we are going to land on the Moon by then

 

[Gargantua2024]

Some early designs for additional hardware on the surface for the Artemis Base Camp is popping up recently...like the following below

Lunar Terrain Vehicle (LTV)
Artemis 5, NET 2028


Habitable Mobility Platform (HMP)/Toyota Lunar Cruiser (the former NASA-SEV)
Artemis 7, NET 2030


Foundational Surface Habitat (FSH)
Artemis 8, NET 2031

 

[gattispilot]

I maybe making those

 

[Gargantua2024]

Axiom Space has revealed their new lunar spacesuits for Artemis, and I can say those are pretty cool designs!

 

[gattispilot]

Great more meshes. I wonder if they will be black or white?

 

[DaveS]

Great more meshes. I wonder if they will be black or white?

Per reveal webcast: They'll be all white for thermal control and visibility reasons.