News Contact lost with 777-200ER of Malaysia Airlines

Urwumpe

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Read the wiki on the crash Urwumpe. The Captain had the option of overnighting and trying takeoff in the morning. It was his decision to attempt a takeoff in winter weather conditions. It was also his decision to open the throttles at a slower rate in order to prevent boost surging as opposed to holding the plane like the station engineer suggested.

The whole event was a catastrophic domino effect set in motion by the flight crew and their unwillingness to stay over night.

Now I think we can remove this one from the grand "history" of airline coverups.

Actually wrong, if you read the whole story - while he did a non-standard procedure to take off, the exact cause wasn't the changed engine throttle schedule, but the slush on the runway, that was reported as safe to take off by the Munich operators - which was correct in their understanding, since in 1958, most aircraft on Munich had been tail draggers, while this aircraft wasn't. Also this accident happened right before the runway had been upgraded for jet aircraft.

It was actually a German government cover-up (or better: Bavarian state government), since the pilot had been blamed for everything by them, even after the importance of the slush in the investigation became known. They stressed that the pilot must have failed to use de-icing instead. With modern reconstructions, it is even clear, that without the slush, the aircraft would have took off safely with enough margin.
 

Melvin

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OK Urwumpe, I'll assume that you're correct and that airport officials did, in fact, report the runway as safe for takeoff.

What I'm getting at is the rather bold statement by Evil Onyx that there is a history of mechanical and maintenance issues being blamed on the pilot to save face for the airline. In all of the cases cited (very few cases, at that) I only find maybe a single incident that was the direct result of a previously known system error that directly caused the incident. What's worse is that this issue was known, but the information was withheld from the flight crew. Leave it to the blokes in the RAF to try and pull a stunt like that. Pip pip stiff upper lip and all that, right?


And you know something... the RAF pilot's actions are still a bit questionable. Although the official report states that they should be given the benefit of the doubt.
 
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Evil_Onyx

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It only has to be one instance to be history.

I was giving a valid reason why members of the flight crew may be blamed when there is no evidence to the contrary. With examples.

I did not mean to say it is common but it has happened in the past.
 

Melvin

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I did not mean to say it is common but it has happened in the past.

So, would you say that all of the examples that were given are proof of your accusation?

Or, is it possible that your statement was a little far reaching?







Not to say that it isn't true in this case, just trying to get to the core of the matter.
 

garyw

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MH370 search discovers "interesting" objects on seabed

The search area is being narrowed down but I can't see the plane being found until this time next year and even when it is the search for answers is only just starting.

MH370 search discovers "interesting" objects on seabed: media

CANBERRA, Sept. 5 (Xinhua) -- Investigators searching for the missing Malaysian Airlines flight MH370 have discovered "hard objects" on the Indian Ocean seabed that seem inconsistent with their surroundings, according to media reports.

Fresh mapping of the MH370 search area has detected the objects with satellite-tracking data and flight-simulation analysis.

The Times newspaper reported in London that Martin Dolan of the Australian Transport Safety Bureau said new surveys of the seabeds had revealed the interesting findings, even if it was possible they were rock formations.

Speaking to The Times, Dolan said, "there is nothing that has screamed out and said 'I look like an aircraft'."

"It's still a hell of an area. The area is horribly, horribly complicated."

Dolan, who is conducting the search, is also confident that a smaller search area will be announced soon, based on satellite data and the use of flight simulators.

The aircraft disappeared from radar screens on March 8 with 239 passengers and crew on board after it departed Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia en route for Beijing.

But the most expensive search in aviation history as so far failed to spot any wreckage from the airliner.

Experts from Australia, Britain and the U.S. are confident that they have narrowed the likely resting place to a smaller, 60,000 sq km arc in the Indian Ocean, 1,800 km off the coast of Western Australia. "The complexities surrounding the search cannot be understated. It involves vast areas of the Indian Ocean with only limited known data and aircraft flight information," Dolan said.

"While it is impossible to determine with certainty where the aircraft may have entered the water, all the available data indicates a highly probable search area close to a long but narrow arc of the southern Indian Ocean.

"The search will be a major undertaking. The complexities and challenges involved are immense, but not impossible.

"The best minds from around the world have been reviewing, refining and localizing the most likely area where the aircraft entered the water, which is why we remain confident of finding the aircraft."

The latest developments from the search come after investigators now think MH370 turned south a little sooner than first thought.

Australia's Transport Minister Warren Truss revealed this when Australia signed a memorandum of understanding with Malaysia's Transport Minister Liow Tiong Lai in Canberra recently.

Truss, the deputy Prime Minister, said more research had been done in trying to trace the unsuccessful phone call, Malaysia Airlines ground staff made to the plane when it disappeared from radar back in March.

"Some work has been done in endeavoring to map the position of the aircraft when a failed satellite telephone conversation was attempted between Malaysia Airlines on the ground and the aircraft, " Truss said.

"That has suggested to us that the aircraft may have turned south a little earlier than we had previously expected."

The Malaysian government has said it would be splitting the cost of the tender for the deep underwater search with Australia.

Last month the government announced Dutch company Fugro was awarded a contract to scour the ocean floor for wreckage.

The operation, which is due to begin next month, is expected to take a year and cost millions of U.S. dollars.

Source: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/...ch-discovers-interesting-objects-seabed-media
 

garyw

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ATSB commissioner confident MH370 will be found by May

As the one year anniversary of missing flight MH370 approaches, Australian Transport Safety Bureau Commissioner Martin Dolan has expressed confidence that the aircraft will be found by May this year.
He said he was confident of locating the Boeing 777 by the time the current search was complete.

Speaking to news.com (Australia), he said: “I don’t wake up every day thinking ‘this will be the day’ but I do wake up every day hoping this will be it, and expecting that sometime between now and May that will be the day.”
He pointed out that it had been both baffling and unprecedented, not only the mystery of it, but also on the scale of what was being done to find the aircraft.

The Malaysian Airlines aircraft from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing went missing on March 8, 2014, an hour into its flight with 239 passengers and crew on board.
The Joint Agency Coordination Centre (JACC) said on the issue if nothing was found the Chinese, Malaysian and Australian Governments would consider the next step.

“What those next steps might be is what the three governments will need to consider,” a JACC spokesman said.
Dolan said the mystery surrounding the complete absence of debris from MH370 was currently being re-examined by drift modelling experts.
He said it would have been good to have found surface wreckage but they were not particularly surprised nothing had been located.
On the modelling, the commissioner said they were working with experts to look at where any potential floating wreckage might have drifted to.
He pointed out that it was quite complex now and they expected to have an update on that soon, adding that they were not holding out any hope any surface wreckage would be detected.
He said much of the modelling was dependent on how the aircraft would have collided with the water and the extent to which the Boeing 777 remained intact.

“We don’t know how much debris there would have been on the surface in the first place …. and it’s possible any floating wreckage may have sunk by now,” Dolan said.

Source: http://www.therakyatpost.com/news/2...ssioner-confident-mh370-will-be-found-by-may/
 

kuddel

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Where does his "by May" timeframe estimate come from (or why not "by June")?
 

Urwumpe

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Where does his "by May" timeframe estimate come from (or why not "by June")?

Likely the end of the storm season in that part of the ocean?
 

kuddel

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Likely the end of the storm season in that part of the ocean?
Might be.
Still I find it strange to give a date...
...as if "every wreck shows up until May 31. -Always!" ;)
 

Urwumpe

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Might be.
Still I find it strange to give a date...
...as if "every wreck shows up until May 31. -Always!" ;)

Well, it isn't that unlikely to be correct. First of all, bayesian searches are generally pretty reliable to find something eventually. The Titanic was also discovered during the planned time frame by a bayesian search approach.

The chance that they will not find it during the next campaign, with vastly reduced search boxes, is very high now.
 

movieman

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This article suggests that, found or not, that is when they estimate they will have concluded searching 100% of the current priority search area

Yes. Though the odds are reasonable that it is somewhere in that search area (which, obviously, is why it's being searched first). It really all comes down to how far it could have flown from the final satellite contact, and how accurate the calculated position of that contact may be.

There's still a lot of ocean left to be searched if they don't find it there.
 
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garyw

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A senior Boeing 777 captain believes he has calculated where MH370 is

And this one looks pretty plausible.

he position is S38.082 E87.400 (latitude and longitude using decimals rather than minutes).

The 777-200ER has been missing since 8 March 2014, and no trace of it has been found despite an extensive multinational search.

The location this experienced captain has identified is not fundamentally at odds with the present MH370 search assumptions, being in much the same part of the southeastern Indian Ocean, but it is just outside the core target area currently being trawled by a search team led by the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB).

Capt Simon Hardy’s calculations are based on a combination of data which include the Inmarsat satellite communication "handshake arcs", his expertise in 777 performance calculation, and some mathematical "reverse engineering" of the navigation geometry known to apply to this flight.

Hardy is aware that many very able people have theories about MH370, not least those advising the search, but believes the result of his calculations is worthy of examination, and hopes the ATSB will find the result useful. "I respectfully recommend it to the MH370 search team," says Hardy, who adds that his analysis could be refined with low-altitude wind speed estimates of the speculated crash zone.

Hardy, an experienced airline pilot, currently works as a senior 777 captain for a major international airline. Like other aviators he was distressed by the MH370 loss, and his concern that relatives of those on board might never know what happened inspired him to begin a geometric investigation of known MH370 navigational facts. He emerged with a set of conclusions that enabled him to isolate what he believes to be MH370’s actual track.

He explains his rationale and how the result emerged: "Rather than picking speeds and a route at random and making them fit with the [satcom handshake] arcs, I have managed to let the arcs tell us both the speed and direction, and finally a location – the exact track between arcs 4 and 6 – where it was doing that speed and heading. I have 'reverse engineered' it."

He continues: "I was expecting to have to deduce a path from waypoint ANOKO [where Hardy calculates the 777 first turned southward] for the aircraft to get to this identified track across arcs 4-6, but then found to my amazement that the track line, when extended north from the 5th arc over a very large distance, went within 2nm of ANOKO. This was the final and strongest eureka moment!"

The "reverse engineering" involved testing a series of plausible tracks southward over the Indian Ocean from the 777's last known position, and discovering the only trajectory that – uniquely – matches the ratio of actual elapsed times between the consecutive Inmarsat/MH370 "handshakes". He then found, subsequently, that certain known data, when tested against that navigational trajectory, made sense. For example, on that identified track, the actual elapsed time between "handshake arcs" would occur if the 777 was flying at its long-range cruise speed – possibly a coincidence, but a likely choice by the person directing the flight.

Hardy worked with one key assumption: that, once set on this southward cruise, the aircraft's true air speed (TAS) and its track (based on true north), remained the same or were hardly varied.

Hardy explains: "For the purposes of this purely mathematical/geometrical investigation I am making one assumption: that in most scenarios (hypoxia, fire, a hidden hand), the track and speed of the aircraft from 2141Z [UTC/GMT at the 4th handshake arc] to 0011Z [time at the 6th arc] would be

FIN-MH370-2-Xa-2.jpg


Here is his methodology: "In order to extract the information from the arcs we have to introduce some 'what ifs'. What if the aircraft crossed the 4th arc at some random position… say Position A [see diagram]? And if it did, what route could it have taken from there?"

Hardy then explores the track alternatives beginning at A. "If a series of straight lines are projected from point A through arcs 4 and 5 to different points on arc 6, only one line satisfies the ratio of 1:1.5". That ratio is derived from the 1h between the satellite handshakes at arcs 4 and 5, and 1h 30min between 5 and 6, which are the actual elapsed times for MH370 between these respective handshakes.

Hardy continues: "Line A shows the only straight line from point A that satisfies this ratio. If we now measure the distance of the line from arc 4 to arc 5 we will get the distance travelled in that hour, hence the speed required to fly Line A. In this case line A would have to be flown at a speed of 541kt." Hardy stresses that this was still a "what if" experiment at this stage: "Of course we don't have any reason to think that it did go over point A, but if it did then it flew that line at 541kt."

Using the same elapsed-time ratio between handshake arcs, he points out: "We can do the same for another random point: B. This time the only track that the aircraft flew if it passed point B is as shown. This line's length gives a speed of 428kt."

"Finally," he adds, "we do the same for point C, its line length giving a speed of 491kt."

The lines appear to be nearly parallel. Says Hardy: "This is great news as we can measure the angle of the lines. We find that they only vary from 188°T to 192°T [track direction relative to true north]." These clues as to the aircraft's true track between times 2141Z and 0011Z point, he says, to a track of 190°T plus or minus 2°.

FIN-MH370WHATIF-Xa1.jpg


The next task – again purely using maths, Hardy explains – was to try to find out where MH370 actually crossed the arcs, assuming it was flying this approximately 190°T track, starting from a known position.

The last radar contact position of the aircraft was at 1822Z, and at that time the Inmarsat-measured BFO (beat frequency offset) data indicates that the aircraft was still on a westerly heading at 1825Z, and that it had turned southerly by 1840Z. That provides a 15min window somewhere during which it turned southerly.

He continues: "Extending the line from just south of Penang [where the aircraft's radar track passed] to the 1822Z position, it lines up within 2° with waypoint ANOKO on the Chennai FIR boundary. Its route and speed are known from 1722Z until 1822Z so we can work out a time at ANOKO of 1836Z."

"This satisfies the 15min window so we will use ANOKO as the turn point, bearing in mind that MH370 has turned at a FIR boundary before on this journey – and indeed flown along a FIR boundary [Lumpur and Bangkok]." Many students of the MH370 disappearance believe this tactic of “sitting on the fence” was calculated.

Now back to the “what if” points A, B and C. All of them are on the 4th arc, which is defined by a satcom handshake with MH370 at 2141Z. That means the aircraft has 3h 05min to fly from ANOKO to arc 4.

Hardy explains: "We can measure the distances to A, B and C from ANOKO and then derive the speeds required. As shown on Fig 1, the speeds required to get to points A, C and B respectively are 443, 485 and 601kt.”

The speeds required to cover the distance increase the more westerly the track from ANOKO is, because the distance increases; whereas the speeds for the lines southward beyond points A, B and C decrease the further east they are. Therefore there is only one place where the speed from ANOKO to the 4th arc is the same as the speed from the 4th arc to the 5th and 6th arcs.

Plotting a graph of true air speed against longitude using the three speeds derived for the sectors from ANOKO to arc 4 and then the three for the legs beyond points A, B and C, the lines cross at 488kt and 91.25E.

FIN-MH370GRAPH-Xa1.jpg


Using the same logic as that for drawing lines A, B and C, if at this point a fourth line is drawn just 5nm west of line C, the speed that fits the equations at this line is 488kt and the true track is 188°T. Logic suggests that is MH370’s actual track. Interestingly, a group of aviators calling themselves the Independent Group – also offering advice for the ATSB team – like Hardy calculates the southbound leg beginning at ANOKO and offers a remarkably similar track: 187°T. But IG reached its conclusions via a slightly differing logic, so there is an argument that the two calculations could be considered to validate each other.

A line from ANOKO to this position, across 1,500nm of ocean, happens also to be 188°T - which Hardy considers "very significant" as an indicator of MH370's track.

Hardy adds some observations: "We have been drawing straight lines on a curving map, so some correction is required to make them truly straight. This gives a 6th arc crossing point of S37.388 E87.550. This shortens the 5th to 6th arc leg slightly, but is acceptable as there are two reasons the ground speed may have been slightly less for this leg: an increasing headwind component, or a climb to stay at optimum level at a constant Mach 0.84. This causes a slight decrease in true airspeed compared to lower levels."

As a part of the process of validating his calculations, Hardy provides some insight based on his 777 operating experience, examining what he would have done if he had intended an outcome such as this, as many experts believe the person directing MH370 did from the time it departed from its flight planned route.

"Using my knowledge of the Boeing 777, I would have selected long range cruise speed if I wanted to take the aircraft as far as possible, that being nominally M0.84, giving a true airspeed of 485kt to 491kt,” says Hardy, explaining: “The geometrically derived speed from the arcs and the radar plot of 488kt TAS is absolutely crucial in giving confidence in the results. The arcs were derived mathematically, but they have delivered the exact speed I would have chosen."

He then looks again at the track logic: "The 188°T figure was found right at the beginning when we drew the three lines, and it comes purely from the satcom handshake arcs. Again this gives me great confidence in it. Meanwhile, viewing the oceanic area charts there is a mass of magnetic variation lines. In these circumstances of rapidly changing magnetic variation most pilots would select TRUE rather than the usual magnetic compass reference."

Hardy adds: "As the winds are probably unknown to the person directing the aircraft, and he doesn't want them to influence the direction the aircraft flies over the ground, he would select TRACK [not heading]. The aircraft then compensates for the crosswind effects, and he goes in the direction chosen."

Hardy examines whether his argument accords with calculations about where the fuel would be exhausted: "If we follow the 188degT line to the 7th arc we find that it meets it almost exactly at the same place where the fuel circle crosses the 7th arc. We have not used any reference to fuel in the analysis whatsoever, so this meeting of all three lines in one place makes one feel great confidence in the result."

Still not satisfied, Hardy examines alternative options that would provide the same outcome and finds there are none: "A southward turn of that aircraft earlier at 1828Z (more easterly) allows it more time to get to the arcs. This means a slower speed inbound to an 188°T line which is further west, which would demand a heading change. This means there is no alternative line that has a constant speed inbound and outbound and doesn't require a heading change. The only complete solution is the one at line C starting from ANOKO."

The 188°T track line crosses the 7th arc at S38.528 E87.336

Finally, Hardy adds: “The ATSB June report states that the aircraft is assumed to be at a constant 35,000ft for all the arc calculations. If the aircraft was in fact at sea level at the 7th arc, then the arc will be actually closer to the satellite by an amount based on 35,000ft (5.8nm) factored to simulate the equivalent distance calculated horizontally. This means that the adjusted 7th arc is approximately 4.9nm inside the 7th arc shown.”

He extends this logic: “This method gives a splash zone position of S38.082 E87.400. The maximum range cruise [fuel exhaustion] arc also goes extremely close to this point [30nm]. The ATSB [October] area of interest extends some 600nm along the 7th arc but stops 20nm short of where the 188°T crosses arc 7 (and the adjusted arc 7) where I believe the aircraft is positioned.”

In fact, so plausible and interesting are his calculations that the ATSB are now talking to him.

And he told Huffington Post UK: "Captain Hardy had tried to communicate his calculations to the ATSB before talking to us, but they were so bombarded with theories, most of them crackpot, that they didn’t take any notice of him until we published his calculations online back in mid-December 2014, and in the magazine (Flight International) in mid-January."

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/features/mh370/

and

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...h-boeing-777-pilot-simon-hardy_n_6781818.html
 

movieman

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However, the CVR pinger battery still had a few months before its replacement date, so that should have continued pinging for at least the full 30 days.

I won't be entirely surprised if it turns out to be a cargo fire leading to hypoxia and the pilots flying off into nowhere due to lack of oxygen. That's one of the few explanations that makes some kind of sense to me.
 

Urwumpe

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I won't be entirely surprised if it turns out to be a cargo fire leading to hypoxia and the pilots flying off into nowhere due to lack of oxygen. That's one of the few explanations that makes some kind of sense to me.

Without any emergency call? I have doubts.
 

movieman

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Without any emergency call? I have doubts.

Haven't there been a few case of pilots doing otherwise inexplicable things when running out of oxygen? I know a couple of planes have crashed that way.

The only explanation that seems to explain everything is a crazed murder/suicide pact by the crew, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence of them having a reason to do it.
 

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Isn't it required that one of the pilots in the cockpit be on oxygen at all times while above a certain altitude?
 
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