News COVID-19 pandemic

What will happen after the Corona epidemic?

  • The population of Asia will be reduced, accelerating the sustainable development.

    Votes: 14 30.4%
  • The major civilizations will collapse.

    Votes: 12 26.1%
  • The human race will end.

    Votes: 20 43.5%

  • Total voters
    46
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Face

Well-known member
Orbiter Contributor
Addon Developer
Beta Tester
Joined
Mar 18, 2008
Messages
4,403
Reaction score
581
Points
153
Location
Vienna
@Face, the damage caused by the measures is likely minor compared to the damage we would see without measures. I don't want to try it out.

That's your opinion, sure. However, we don't even see the whole damage caused by the measures yet. And by the things we do see already, I don't share your opinion. I think that the cure is currently deadlier than the disease, so to speak. I would also not compare it to what we would see without measures at all. There are enough examples for how countries get along without strict lockdowns and only moderate measures, we don't have to try it out.

If you look how many people are employed in Germany, and how many lost their jobs in 2020, it turns out that 98% did not lose their job. And of the 2% not everyone lost the job due to the pandemic. So I don't see a rational ground for the complaining. And if you lose your job, you are free to chose a new one. People pretend once they lost their job it's all over. But that's not reality. I got a lot of new workmates that were ramp agents and flight attendants before. They just got a new job now, and they are even better off with more salary and permanently employed now.

Well, I won't tell the people who have lost their jobs that they are free to choose a new one, anyway. That's pretty cynical if they lost their jobs due to the measures, especially if they can't get a new one due to the pandemic still going on. Just as you have your anecdotes about people being lucky to get new jobs, I have my own about people being not so lucky, and having enormous problems now.

The problem I see with people that don't agree to measures is they don't have intelligent alternatives to offer. And it's the same with global warming for example. Yes, the climate is always changing, people always die, there will always be infections and alcohol is allowed when drugs are not. But you can't argue that way if you are a doctor, a politician or a scientist. You have to act.

Of course nobody can have intelligent alternatives to offer in the eyes of those that proclaimed the current measures to have no alternatives to start with (Merkel's "alternativlos"). Politicians already have examples of how different measures work out, they just choose to render them as non-intelligent. That's what they always do, even if they change their strategy later on.
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,615
Reaction score
2,335
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
Well, I won't tell the people who have lost their jobs that they are free to choose a new one, anyway. That's pretty cynical if they lost their jobs due to the measures, especially if they can't get a new one due to the pandemic still going on. Just as you have your anecdotes about people being lucky to get new jobs, I have my own about people being not so lucky, and having enormous problems now.

Lets start with the obvious: How can you prove, that the jobs where lost due to the pandemic?

And not, for example, of more mundane issues, like for example the business simply being ineffective and so crusted that its impossible to adapt to changing markets?

And why are those jobs lost then - because of the measures to stop it or the uncertainty that the pandemic causes if not stopped? For example: Have people stopped buying cars because the pandemic measures prevent them from buying new cars? Or because they are more careful with such investments as long as they don't know how things turn out? Are automobile subcontractors suffering trouble from the pandemic measures, or rather because the big OEMs are both reducing their investments in times of uncertainty AND go on with the strategy that already started in 2017, which meant that they are developing more components and software in-house?

You know, this ain't socialism here. Even though politicians try their best to turn this into one, if enough corruption flows back to them (See the CDU here as example now, as one politician managed to exceed the tolerable level of corruption for German standards...)...

I had studied some business administration in the past years and enjoy reading the mandatory annual reports of companies, which is a great fun if you like new creative ways of how to mention business risks as optimistic as you can still conform to the laws ;)

And you sadly, avoid the most critical ethic question: Let us assume, there would be no rules. No laws. No politicians you can blame. Just you and the rest of humanity. A real anarchic utopia. How would you act, considering the facts, that we have after 14 months of pandemic? Which kind of actions and principles would you consider important enough that everybody could act this way? Lets enjoy some game theory: Would you go full egoism, like many already do, assuming that those who care and those who have something more to lose than their habits, will change their behaviour enough that you can profit from them? Will you go to the opposite extreme, of people panicing and restricting themselves heavily because they have to assume that others will let them die, because they are considered less important as some play money?
 
Last edited:

TheShuttleExperience

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
941
Reaction score
1,217
Points
108
Location
Earth
@Face, the problem with a pandemic is that one can not compare and apply measures from different regions and countries. Sweden for example has a signifcantly lower population density (ten times less) than Germany or Austria (four times).

Merkels "alternativlos" has often been misused by populists. Most if not all critics and populists lack a rational solution. Until we are able to vaccinate everyone who wants to, there is no effective way to prevent spreading other than distancing, masks and hygiene.

People will always lose jobs, and get new ones. Before a crisis, during, and after. This is also one topic that always gets captured by populists. I understand that people are very afraid. But I prefer rational thinking over emotions and rumors. And as soon as a movement or arguments are captured by populists and extremists, my warning bells are ringing. We already saw it during the refugee crisis. And it's partly the same people and mindset shouting again now. They jump from one event to another, driven by fear.
 

Azul Quinton

New member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
13
Reaction score
3
Points
3
Location
London
In January my friends and I were going to visit the North Pole but due to the lockdown we had to put off the trip till mid-April. To see the Northern Lights is my childhood dream. Hope that all these circumstances will not prevent this from happening fingers crossed Also dream to visit Franz Josef Land. There say it is awesome!
 
Last edited:

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
9,286
Reaction score
3,252
Points
203
Location
Toulouse
If you look how many people are employed in Germany, and how many lost their jobs in 2020, it turns out that 98% did not lose their job. And of the 2% not everyone lost the job due to the pandemic.

Just sayin', but I worked in Morocco last year, they lived a lot from tourism. Not only, there is some chemical industry, but still a lot. And in one year that whole part of their economy simply... vanished... like that. Lot of countries are going to have the same issues at various levels, also in Southern Europe and France. In Asia too. Mexico, Brazil, mostly the same fight. Of course there are few beach managers and attendants in Germany. Y'know, Baltic Sea coolness is good for your health and the sunset on the industrial harbor of Hamburg is a glorious thing, but still...
 

Urwumpe

Not funny anymore
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
37,615
Reaction score
2,335
Points
203
Location
Wolfsburg
Preferred Pronouns
Sire
Just sayin', but I worked in Morocco last year, they lived a lot from tourism. Not only, there is some chemical industry, but still a lot. And in one year that whole part of their economy simply... vanished... like that. Lot of countries are going to have the same issues at various levels, also in Southern Europe and France. In Asia too. Mexico, Brazil, mostly the same fight. Of course there are few beach managers and attendants in Germany. Y'know, Baltic Sea coolness is good for your health and the sunset on the industrial harbor of Hamburg is a glorious thing, but still...

Exactly, it isn't helpful to look at such indicators, especially if the performance indicator is also used as goal.

Germany for example has an established system of reduced work hours with the government paying part of the wages for supporting the industry. And it was used a lot in the past year. That is why many jobs won't be lost before April 2021, when the maximum duration of this help ends. Maybe they will extend the period. I doubt it.
 

MaxBuzz

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
1,404
Reaction score
2,130
Points
128
Location
Kursk
In January my friends and I were going to visit the North Pole but due to the lockdown we had to put off the trip till mid-April. To see the Northern Lights is my childhood dream. Hope that all these circumstances will not prevent this from happening fingers crossed
do not forget to wear sunglasses, otherwise the whitish snow can deprive you of your ability to distinguish colors, as my friend did while in Murmansk (very southern guy)
 

ChrisRowland

Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
Messages
28
Reaction score
24
Points
18
Location
On the sofa
Had a trip to Northen Finland (Nellim) in March a few years ago. Glorious northern lights, the sky went green. We had an expedition to a site about a km from Russia and my phone woke up and gave me a cheery mesage saying welcome to Russia and telling me about the eye watering roaming chanrges.

Must go again some time.
 

TheShuttleExperience

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
941
Reaction score
1,217
Points
108
Location
Earth
Just sayin', but I worked in Morocco last year, they lived a lot from tourism. Not only, there is some chemical industry, but still a lot. And in one year that whole part of their economy simply... vanished... like that. Lot of countries are going to have the same issues at various levels, also in Southern Europe and France. In Asia too. Mexico, Brazil, mostly the same fight. Of course there are few beach managers and attendants in Germany. Y'know, Baltic Sea coolness is good for your health and the sunset on the industrial harbor of Hamburg is a glorious thing, but still...

Tourism is a big issue in some countries. But the good news is that it will boom again once the pandemic is over. Thanks to the wealth we got. Same for the aviation industries, which is always fragile and effected even by the tiniest financial crisis. That's why I stopped my ATPL pilot training a few years ago when Air Berlin went out of business. Now it turns out it was a good decision to take a different path before wasting a lot of money.

But my point was that complaining about measures in a country like Germany is actually inappropiate. There are a lot of individuals in this world that got no job, no food, no running and clean water, no electricity, no roof over their head and a very short life expectation. And then you have such strange individuals in Germany complaining about civil rights, repression and dictatorship because they have to wear a simple mask in the supermarket and are currently not allowed to party...
 

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
9,286
Reaction score
3,252
Points
203
Location
Toulouse
Same for the aviation industries, which is always fragile and effected even by the tiniest financial crisis.

Speaking of which, I lived in Toulouse for 10 years and plan to return there ASAP. Home of Airbus, they had to fire 33% of their employees and managers. Its a social disaster. Right now nobody wants to buy airliners. Luckily Toulouse is also home of the CNES design offices, mission control and headquarters, and Ariane Espace should not be too much affected. Also some defense industries (Thales, Dassault Systems)... But Airbus was the economic engine of the whole region. Good thing for me is that flats are getting cheaper...
 

Kyle

Armchair Astronaut
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
3,912
Reaction score
339
Points
123
Website
orbithangar.com
I'm upset. I literally just graduated college with my BA in Physics after 7 years of absolute grinding. I got a job at a planetarium presenting the night sky to the general public. I moved away from Florida to Illinois. It's every orbitnaut's dream. But we've closed to the public indefinitely and my job doesn't really have any online aspects to it, so I'm facing layoff. Worse, it appears the stock market is crashing full-on 2008 style and I'm a thousand miles away from all of my friends and family while a global pandemic is going on.

Replying to a comment I made on this thread exactly a year ago today. I was pretty upset when I made this post and didn't have many channels to vent my stress, so thanks to all who listened.

FYI: I ended up being laid off in October, exactly as I feared. I ended up getting another job, full-time, so it ended up working out decently.

It didn't end up so well for many people who I graduated college with though.
 

TheShuttleExperience

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
941
Reaction score
1,217
Points
108
Location
Earth
@Kyle, nice to hear (y)

It's always good to try to remain optimistic, even if it's hard. The pandemic is certainly not the end of the world. There are only two things one can do: give up and complain once overcome by fear, or try to do the very best. Of course for a lot of people it is very hard - they even have to leave their country or at least have to move. You know, there are no problems - there are only challenges. Some easy, some very hard. The only question is: am I willing and able to take them? And my answer always is: yes, at least I'll try as long as I am healthy, intelligent and capable of working in a team.
 

jgrillo2002

Conservative Pioneer
Addon Developer
Joined
Mar 17, 2008
Messages
755
Reaction score
17
Points
33
Location
New York State
Already got mine, which was the Pfizer vaccine. second dose coming in two weeks.
 
Last edited:

steph

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
1,394
Reaction score
715
Points
113
Location
Vendee, France

Supposedly new variant, detected in Brittany. Apparently, it evades PCR testing. First 8 hospitalized patients are dead. Looks bad , but it could just be due to an overwhelmed local hospital. Not sure if fear-mongering or a real problem here.

Now, PCR tests are notoriously unreliable around here. I don't know if it's the prelevation method, the reactants or both, but many people come out negative despite having symptoms, some even get hospitalized, while others test positive more than a month after catching the virus. This is either a screw-up on the lab level, or we'll be hearing about this again soon
 

TheShuttleExperience

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 24, 2021
Messages
941
Reaction score
1,217
Points
108
Location
Earth
The PCR test actually is very reliable. At least here in Germany. If it‘s positive, they do another dual-gate test.

The flu causes very equal symptoms and hospital stays. It‘s less deadly but can turn equallly nasty.
 

N_Molson

Addon Developer
Addon Developer
Donator
Joined
Mar 5, 2010
Messages
9,286
Reaction score
3,252
Points
203
Location
Toulouse
France is resuming AstraZeneca injections tomorrow. Which is a relief.

Paris, the region around Paris ("Ile de France") and the North are going to be locked down for 4 weeks as hospitals there are reaching saturation. For the others regions, curfew will be delayed from 6PM to 7PM (to give some sense to the daylight saving switch we're going through the 28th).
 

Thunder Chicken

Fine Threads since 2008
Donator
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
4,365
Reaction score
3,300
Points
138
Location
Massachusetts
Our governor is saying April 19th will be the start of Phase III immunization eligibility for the general population and the state seem to have finally got an online appointment system up and working. I'm starting to have some hopes of seeing friends and family this summer.
 

Sbb1413

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
948
Reaction score
373
Points
78
Location
India
Preferred Pronouns
he/his/him
One year is passed, still COVID-19 is far from over. India will again declare a lockdown after the state elections in West Bengal, Assam, Tamil Nadu and Puducherry (Pondicherry). These f**king elections are increasing the spread of COVID-19.

The European Union is currently out of the vaccination programs initiated by AstraZeneca. The EU may use Sputnik-V (Gam-COVID-Vac) or Pfizer-BioNTech vaccines, none of which I trust. British PM Boris J is asserting that Covishield is harmleess.

Also, most scientists agree that COVID-19 will never go away. It will live with us like a common cold virus. In order to see the world without COVID-19, you have to see the world without the human race (with some vaccinated persons, in case you are bored).
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top