SDK Question Dynamically change planet parameters

eyu100

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Three questions:
  1. Is it possible to dynamically change a planet's size and mass? Texture? Position?
  2. Can an MFD change the position and orientation of a vessel directly? (the answer is probably yes)
  3. If so, is it possible to implement "seamless" interstellar travel by keeping the planets the same, but changing all their parameters and positions so it is as if you arrived in a different star system? Even if you can't move the star, you can emulate moving it by moving the vessel instead; after all, only relative positions and velocities are physically meaningful.
 

jedidia

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dynamically changing planet parameters would probably mess up the whole basic system architecture of Orbiter, so it would be futile to make such a request for a patch. However, Martin said he'll maybe focus more on interstelar travel in the next version, so if you'll wait a few years... ;)
 

HAL9001

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but could you say tat there shold be anoher star in the system, with planets,too wich is lightyears away...
 

jedidia

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You can define a star as a planet, you can give it an emissive color so it looks like a star, so technically yes. BUT: the lighting will still be from the real star, so the planets would be lit wrongly. Plus, precision starts to deteriorate the further you get from the center (this is a common problem in programming, not an Orbiter issue), so without switching the coordinate system to a new center you won't have much fun with it, because the most precision you can expect at the distance of several lightyears would be maybe 10 meters, so docking or landing is absolutely impossible.
 

computerex

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Three questions:
  1. Is it possible to dynamically change a planet's size and mass? Texture? Position?
  2. Can an MFD change the position and orientation of a vessel directly? (the answer is probably yes)
  3. If so, is it possible to implement "seamless" interstellar travel by keeping the planets the same, but changing all their parameters and positions so it is as if you arrived in a different star system? Even if you can't move the star, you can emulate moving it by moving the vessel instead; after all, only relative positions and velocities are physically meaningful.

1. As far as I know, no. Could be possible though. Orbiter's API certainly doesn't allow it.
2. Yes.
3. Yes. You can easily "simulate" the planet's mass/size being changed. It is not practical but possible.

I was thinking of implementing some system, allowing intersteller travel. I have some ideas that might be fun to play with, but the project list is full right now, and schools are about to begin :thumbup:
 

Usquanigo

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Interesting thread. I admit I've never delved that deeply into Orbiter's core/inner workings/SDK/etc, but it's also a bit of a let down.

I'd always been led to beleive that the planets are just large bodies set in motion around a single gravitational point, much like a satellite in orbit around the Earth. And that _since_ they have their own gravitational influence, that if you were to say, sling Venus around the Earth, it could screw up the Earth's orbit - as one would imagine it should if such a crazy thing were to actually happen for real.

So the planets are on rails? Like the old Renaissance mechanical solar system models?
 

jedidia

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So the planets are on rails? Like the old Renaissance mechanical solar system models?
It depends. You can define a planets orbit by state vectors in the cfg, in which case they are propagated according to realtime calculations of gravitational influences (that's the easiest way of simulating a planetary system on a computer programming wise, by the way). However, the whole thing gets highly unstable under high time acceleration.

This is why you can define a planets orbit by its orbital elements, in which case its position is propagated according to kepplers laws. Not entirely realistic (it's only a two-body simulation, other gravitational influences than the star and the planet in question are not considered), but absolutely stable under no matter how high a time acceleration, and even allow propagation over long periods of time without itteration.

Third, you can define the orbit by a custom dll, as is done for a lot of planets in the sol system. I.e. you can define the "rails" much more precisely, and you can take other influences into account and define the orbit accordingly (you can even simulate the errors in Mercurys orbit resulting from general relativity without actually simulating general relativity). Very precise during the course of probably several centuries, but it's still on rails.

3. Yes. You can easily "simulate" the planet's mass/size being changed. It is not practical but possible.
I guess you mean that you can simulate them having another mass by screwing with the gravitational influences on a vessel. Not very practical indeed. But if you ever find a way to actually change the physical size and mass or even add or erase a planet from a system, let me know. I would be highly interested in such a hack...
 

eyu100

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If a planet's orbit can be changed by a custom DLL, can't the custom DLL change its position as well? And if you aren't planning to get close to a planet, you can "fake" changing its texture by creating a large spherical vessel that coincides with the center of the planet.
 

Usquanigo

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Ok, so if I understand you correctly, you're saying that you can do the full on calculations with all factors, but run into errors under time accel, OR, you can put them on rails and then simply calculate where on the rail they should be at any given point in time, which IS stable under time accel.

So what's the third option then? I would think it's either a locked down orbital track, or freely (and calculatedly (hehe)) orbiting....
 

jedidia

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If a planet's orbit can be changed by a custom DLL, can't the custom DLL change its position as well?

You know... that Idea never even occured to me. It sounds like an Idea worth looking into, I never bothered with the celbody class so far. I still doubt that you would be able to change the mass, and I'm pretty convinced that you can't add or create a planet or reassign textures that way, though. But if someone came up with a solid proof of concept demonstrating these capabilities, I'd hit it.

So what's the third option then? I would think it's either a locked down orbital track, or freely (and calculatedly (hehe)) orbiting....

well, it's the three options "realtime calculated", "eliptic keplerian Orbit" or "user defined Orbit".
 

donatelo200

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I would like to make a planet that is very dynamic like [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_80606_b"]HD-80606-b.[/ame] I would need a very good DLL to simulate shock (massive temperature change in minuts and 3 mps winds) as the planet aproches the star and two seperate cloud textures. (The liqud layer texture would stay the same). Unfortunatly for me DLL is beyond my capabilitys for now.
 
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T.Neo

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Considering we don't have weather implemented in Orbiter at all, it doesn't seem too necessary.

Depicting changing cloud patterns and cloud chemistry would be interesting though.
 

computerex

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But if you ever find a way to actually change the physical size and mass or even add or erase a planet from a system, let me know. I would be highly interested in such a hack...

Dynamic modification of the Sun's mass to 100kg:
sm.jpg
 

donatelo200

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Considering we don't have weather implemented in Orbiter at all, it doesn't seem too necessary.

Depicting changing cloud patterns and cloud chemistry would be interesting though.
It would change the speed of the clouds and creat a shock wave that looks like fire but, for now this can only be in my imagination as i have no experience with C++ or DLL. Also with DLL you could possibly simulate winds on the planet, but for starters what would you be doing in the atmosphere of a gass giant without being suicidal.
 
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computerex

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snc.jpg

Sun's name dynamically modified to "foo".

This is bizarre. Earth's size reduced to 10m. You can see atmospheric artifacts, the DG looks so funny:

sme.png
 
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jedidia

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very nice... now tell me you can change the surface textures and add or remove a planet, and I'll hug 'til you run out of air...
 

eyu100

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I'm posting again so that this thread doesn't go unnoticed. A way to change planet textures would be really useful for Orbiter Galaxy, because instead of restarting Orbiter with a new solar system you could simply rename all the planets and move them around. It would be really nice if computerex could explain what he(/she) did...
 
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