Project Enhanced Orion 20m (Update 3 - Feb 15)

[Jason_25]

I was hoping someone would bring this up. I start to fire mine a little lower than starfish and the yield on this at 100% looks like something in the 5-10 kt range. Much less powerful than Starfish Prime. That is just a guess though. Maybe someone else will speculate.

I can probably even send it to the moon before even firing the nuclear engine with one of my rockets if I wanted to though:thumbup:

 

[Ark]

Great ideas guys, but...FAIL!

"Starfish (1.4mt @ 400km alt) disabled, or caused degradation to, up to one-third of all low-earth orbit satellites at the time. Starfish's resulting electromagnetic pulse (or EMP) reached the Earth's surface where it disrupted radio stations, communication circuits and caused outages or malfunctions in electrical systems in and around Hawaii. The effects were similar in fashion to the fictional EMP employed by the characters in the movie Ocean's Eleven that disrupted electricity in Las Vegas and helped them rob a casino. EMPs can also affect heart pacemakers."

I thought that might still be a problem, so I took the liberty of making a backup plan:

Build it on the Moon and launch with a mass driver. Fire the pulse engine when you go around Farside. :thumbup:

 

[Izack]

o.o wtf! that makes no sense..did this start happening in a previous version?

It's been like this since your first release. >.>

 

[Mandella]

Build it on the Moon and launch with a mass driver. Fire the pulse engine when you go around Farside. :thumbup:

Brilliant!



But honestly, you wouldn't have to go that far. The pulse would be pretty small once outside of earth's greater magnetic field and upper atmosphere. I doubt there would be much problem even at Geostationary range.

But I like the launch from Lunar idea. I doubt we will ever see anything like a pulse atomic rocket put in use until we already have a substantial population off planet. To someone living in the hostile environment of space or the surface of the moon, what's the harm of a little more radiation, more or less? Certainly less than the benefit of fast interplanetary travel.

 

[atomicdryad]

So what megatonnage are the shells propelling the Orion? Much less than 1.4mt I hope!

But that does pull up the question of what degree of pulse would be generated by the bursts, and at what altitude the Orion could be safely used.

The pulse devices are actually tiny in comparison. I've heard figures from 0.1 kt to 15 kt. The yield of the 20meter General Atomics Orion (this one) was censored in the declassified report, however with 800 to reach orbit that means it probably spews 80-12000 KTs worth of nukes to launch. With smaller bomblets the EMP issue isn't so bad so it would never have nearly the impact as starfish as far as satellites go...but something will get fried eventually...and there's also fallout to consider. Crap from Starfish is still trickling down to Earth.

Orion isn't acceptable for LEO let alone getting there But if it's a 'zomg asteroid hurry hurry!' situation, a couple of launches wouldn't be bad. But shuttle replacement? Heeeelll no.

---------- Post added at 06:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:16 AM ----------

NPP Launches from the moon are probably ok. If enough uranium can be mined from the moon, that would be a great way to send fuel to where it needs to go. What addon is that?

---------- Post added at 06:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 AM ----------

It's been like this since your first release. >.>

Whoops, materiel issue I think. It was concealed by a texture and probably exposed by laptop 3d video driver Try this and lemme know if it's still there?

http://orbiterfixes.googlecode.com/files/orion-2011-test2.zip

 

[Sky Captain]

Here is article which attempt to estimate the range of EMP
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/nuclearspace-03a.html

If launched from remote area it should fine as far as EMP damage goes. Best bet woud be to use strap on SRBs to lift it above most of the atmosphere in suborbital trajectory and then circulize with nuclear drive. It would also help to reduce fallout. Launch time and trajectory should be chosen in a way that there is as little sattelites as possible in a vicinity when nuclear drive is used.

I don't see a point in assembling the whole ship in orbit because the main advatage of Orion is it can lift itself and large payload from Earth. If we go for construction in orbit then may as well choose VASIMR drive powered by nuclear reactor since there is no need for high acceleration capability.

 

[Izack]

Whoops, materiel issue I think. It was concealed by a texture and probably exposed by laptop 3d video driver Try this and lemme know if it's still there?

http://orbiterfixes.googlecode.com/files/orion-2011-test2.zip

Is there any way to send only the affected bits? There's a blizzard going on and the download consistently times out before finishing. Hooray wireless.

Edit: Alright, got it. That fixed the longer docking tubes, but some of the docking adapters are still black:

 

[Ark]

NPP Launches from the moon are probably ok. If enough uranium can be mined from the moon, that would be a great way to send fuel to where it needs to go. What addon is that?

[ame="http://orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=620"]Lunar Mass Driver, release 3[/ame]

Kulch's lunar mass driver, parked just outside Armstrong Crater.

 

[Mandella]

I don't see a point in assembling the whole ship in orbit because the main advatage of Orion is it can lift itself and large payload from Earth. If we go for construction in orbit then may as well choose VASIMR drive powered by nuclear reactor since there is no need for high acceleration capability.

That's true for today, but you have to realize that the Orion was a sixties-seventies technology concept, while VASIMR is still in development even today. If we had used it then, it could well be being replaced today by better designs.

Then again, the pulse concept has some things going for it that VASIMR doesn't. Heat buildup is not as much of an issue, and that large pusher plate could also be used as a radiation shield against solar flares, as well as an aerobraking shield. Also, even if issues of pollution/EMP prevented launching from Earth, a space assembled Orion would still have advantages over VASIMR in, say, dropping pretty much an intact and fully functional base on Mars all in one go.

And just because I just ran across the video again, here is an actual small scale test of a launcher. Yes, the project did get this far (although they weren't using nukes in the test!)

 

[Frogisis]

Also, I believe, an Orion has a much higher specific impulse, if you can use that term in this case, so it could reach a much higher maximum speed for longer trips to the outer solar system. Even if a VASIMR were available for trips to Mars, an Orion might be the cheapest way to get to Neptune in a matter of months instead of years.

 

[atomicdryad]

IIRC to get really good ISP you need a -huge- Orion. The Jupiter mission configuration that this addon is based on is trounced in that department by VASMIR (assuming VASMIR can overcome it's hurdles). It can obtain dV ~75km/s *, vs VASMIR's (probable) 100-300km/s

Orion is great in combining good ISP with high thrust...AFAIK it's the -best- way to get massive amounts of stuff into orbit, with the shortest R&D / assembly time...which is why it's the launcher of choice for fictional scenarios of desperation; deep impact, footfall, etc.

Tis a shame about that small radiation issue.

* 60's eta materiel / bomb technology.

Then there's the other pulse drives: Mini-Mag, ACMF, and AIMStar.
Concept: ISP(m/s) / Thrust

(One can probably simulate the performance of these with this addon by editing .cfg)
Orion 20m: 43,000 / 263,000
MiniMag: 210,000 / 625,000
ACMF: 132,300 /100,000
AIM: 598,000/ 55

MPD: 314,000 / 20,000
VASMIR: 294,000 / 40

Figures are from http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/enginelist.php#The_Drive_Table which seems (reasonably) accurate.

---------- Post added at 05:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:10 AM ----------

(snip)
that large pusher plate could also be used as a radiation shield against solar flares, as well as an aerobraking shield.
(snip)

Ahh I knew I forgot something! There are no aerodynamic settings. Tossing into TODO bucket, suggestions welcome.