Project G42-200 StarLiner

[cymrych]

did you go through the double-tap ritual to clear out the scenario load bug?

Yes sir, canards were cycled at all scenario starts, and trim adjusted appropriately.

I've spent the last few hours crunching numbers, and I'm pretty darned confident that UCD is doing something improperly or irregular. As near as I can estimate (with a lot of back-of-napkin claculations), the nose SHOULD lift without much difficulty with just 5mt in the bay. Its just a couple of fairly simple first- and second-class lever calculations, in the end. But with UCD it seems nearly impossible. And I know something is screwy, because I can put a counterweight on the UCD opposite the cargo mass in the tail, so that the overall center of mass is approximately the same as with no cargo ... and no change, the nose still won't lift no matter how far back I move the counterweight nor how massive I try to make it.

Anyway, while UCD is a bit perplexing at the moment, what would really make this much easier to test is if the Attachment Point in the bay could transfew mass to the ship. Any idea what it might take to implement such an attachment point in the dll?

 

[Interceptor]

Here cymrych try this for the heck of it ,This just might. Work. http://www.orbithangar.com/download.php?ID=3058

 

[cymrych]

hmmm, sounds promising. I'll give it a go.

 

[Interceptor]

Yeah, if someone could please help explain some of the features of that attachment addon,I would really apreciate it,it's a little foggy to me. Good luck ,I hope it works.:thumbup:

 

[cymrych]

Go figure, that thing worked! It's a bit on the ancient side and a little buggy with O10, the attachments won't save (or rather, they'll not load up again when you restart a scenario), and it's not the most user-friendly. But it definitely added mass to the G, in a realistic fashion. Yeah!

I'm still running some tests, to make sure it isn;t adding the mass weirdly like UCD seems to, but it's looking good so far. But ... gotta sleep sometime today. Cheers

 

[Interceptor]

Keep me informed please.and I am glad it worked out.

 

[panda1375]

how do i start it?

i'm sorry for posting this but i can not get to move in any way, shape, or form. Please help.

 

[Ripley]

Panda go here http://orbiter-forum.com/showthread.php?p=310366&postcount=942
...and welcome, BTW!

 

[Moach]

check the first page - i've put the checklist there now :thumbup:

i'll try to keep that up do date with development progress, being it's about as much documentation as we have so far

 

[MaverickSawyer]

OK, I have been asked to repost these with the new WIP 303.
This is the JATO Packs addition to any .scn with the G42 as G422.

JATO1:Velcro/JATO
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 330.01
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 -1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END
JATO2:Velcro/JATO
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 330.01
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END

I have found that the JATOs burn out rather quickly and have a large thrust, so tweak the .cfg to knock a 0 off the end of the thrust and rename it something else. Standard Velcro drill.

 

[Moach]

you mind if i first-page this? (credits included) :thumbup:

it seems it could be of interest to... uhh, everyone :hmm:

 

[MaverickSawyer]

Go right ahead. Just make sure that the info on the throttleback of the JATO's gets included.

 

[MaverickSawyer]

OK, I need a can of Raid stat!

BEGIN_DESC

END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51982.6787602811
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship G422
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET G422
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 40.00
  BEGIN_PRESET
    Track:Earth:50.00:RELATIVE 1.299 0.556 0.107
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.553 -0.395 -0.680
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.434 0.192 -0.403
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.434 2.433 -0.488
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
  END_PRESET
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE HSI
  NAV 0 0
  OBS 0.02 0.00
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Orbit
  REF Earth
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD 3
  TYPE Surface
  SPDMODE 3
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD 4
  TYPE COM/NAV
END_MFD

BEGIN_VC
END_VC

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 6659100.58 -735473.00 -1084370.58
  RVEL -376.557 -7322.514 2137.650
  AROT 110.66 -13.54 79.81
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
G422:G42-200 Starliner
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 2:1.000000 3:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 0
  GEARS 2
  CNRDS 2
  VISOR 1
  INLET_MAIN 1
  INLET_RAMX 1
  WING_WVRD 1
  WING_FTHR 1
  MAIN_ENG_MD 0
  BURNER_TGGL 0
  RAMX_ENG_MD 0
  THR_AUTH_MD 0
END
Tank1:Velcro/DropTank1000gal
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.6600000 28.6600000
  HEADING 0.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  CROSSFEED 1 G422 0.5 1 -1.100 1.600 27.000 0.0 -1.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
Tank2:Velcro/DropTank1000gal
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.6600000 28.6600000
  HEADING 0.00
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  CROSSFEED 1 G422 1.0 1 1.100 1.600 27.000 0.0 -1.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
JATO1:Velcro/JATO
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 330.01
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 -1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END
JATO2:Velcro/JATO
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 330.01
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

It's not burning oxidizer at all, and yet runs fine! Can anyone else repeat this?

 

[Axertan]

OK, I need a can of Raid stat!

It's not burning oxidizer at all, and yet runs fine! Can anyone else repeat this?

Try setting all Velcro attached vessels' POS and HEADING string to the exact same as the G42. I remember Velcro giving me odd results when stages / attached JATO's / Drop tanks were off in the coordinates.

Modified scenario for you to try:
(things I modified are in red)

BEGIN_DESC

END_DESC

BEGIN_ENVIRONMENT
  System Sol
  Date MJD 51982.6787602811
END_ENVIRONMENT

BEGIN_FOCUS
  Ship G422
END_FOCUS

BEGIN_CAMERA
  TARGET G422
  MODE Cockpit
  FOV 40.00
  BEGIN_PRESET
    Track:Earth:50.00:RELATIVE 1.299 0.556 0.107
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.553 -0.395 -0.680
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.434 0.192 -0.403
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
    Track:Earth:20.00:RELATIVE 1.434 2.433 -0.488
    Cockpit:G422:50.00
  END_PRESET
END_CAMERA

BEGIN_HUD
  TYPE Surface
END_HUD

BEGIN_MFD Left
  TYPE HSI
  NAV 0 0
  OBS 0.02 0.00
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD Right
  TYPE Orbit
  REF Earth
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD 3
  TYPE Surface
  SPDMODE 3
END_MFD

BEGIN_MFD 4
  TYPE COM/NAV
END_MFD

BEGIN_VC
END_VC

BEGIN_SHIPS
ISS:ProjectAlpha_ISS
  STATUS Orbiting Earth
  RPOS 6659100.58 -735473.00 -1084370.58
  RVEL -376.557 -7322.514 2137.650
  AROT 110.66 -13.54 79.81
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000
  IDS 0:588 100 1:586 100 2:584 100 3:582 100 4:580 100
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 466
END
G422:G42-200 Starliner
  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91
  AFCMODE 7
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.000000 1:1.000000 2:1.000000 3:1.000000
  NAVFREQ 0 0
  XPDR 0
  GEARS 2
  CNRDS 2
  VISOR 1
  INLET_MAIN 1
  INLET_RAMX 1
  WING_WVRD 1
  WING_FTHR 1
  MAIN_ENG_MD 0
  BURNER_TGGL 0
  RAMX_ENG_MD 0
  THR_AUTH_MD 0
END
Tank1:Velcro/DropTank1000gal
[COLOR="Red"]  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91[/COLOR]
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  CROSSFEED 1 G422 0.5 1 -1.100 1.600 27.000 0.0 -1.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
Tank2:Velcro/DropTank1000gal
[COLOR="Red"]  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91[/COLOR]
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  CROSSFEED 1 G422 1.0 1 1.100 1.600 27.000 0.0 -1.0 0.0
  NAVFREQ 21 50
  XPDR 20
END
JATO1:Velcro/JATO
[COLOR="Red"]  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91[/COLOR]
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 -1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 -1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END
JATO2:Velcro/JATO
[COLOR="Red"]  STATUS Landed Earth
  POS -80.7056995 28.6322214
  HEADING 149.91[/COLOR]
  CONFIGURATION 0
  PRIMEBOOSTER 0
  CENTERTHRUST 0
  DELAYSTART 10.0
  TGT_HEADING 90.0
  PRPLEVEL 0:1.0
  PARALLELBURN 1 G422 1.5000 2.0000 -25.0000 0.0000 0.0000 -1.0000 1.0000 0.0000 0.0000
END
END_SHIPS

BEGIN_ExtMFD
END

 

[MaverickSawyer]

No joy. Still no consumption from the tanks. Unless, maybe I need a parallel burn command.

EDIT: nope, wrong tanks. I was feeding the OMS/RCS engines. No idea why that caused 0 oxidizer use, though. It should feed into tank #2.

 

[Moach]

alright - guess who is off the clock up 'til the monday after new year? :thumbup:


came in a good time too.... you know, even we mad-scientist game programmers need a break every now and then (which ironically, i seem to spend programming things for games :shifty


so yesterday, i did something i was meaning to do for a long time - i have revised the engines performance envelope again, and i believe this is as close to "what the real thing should be like" as it's ever been....


i'm still using my lazy-boy lookup-and-interpolate approach, but now i've rigged it up in a way that is dependent on mach number and dynamic pressure - so now, if you fly a constant-Q ascent (which i read is how scramjets should fly), you'll get the proper response from the engines


anyways... i'm aware of the severe state of undocumentation this project stands in right now - but well, writing stuff down takes time, and if i change something i'll have to write all about it again, and again.... quite inconvenient to keep that up while making any real progress


so i've decided - i'm gonna make us a little video demonstrating the basic flight procedures and features we have so far.... this should be easier than compiling all the technical details needed for a proper flight manual - and it should be a little more informative than a hastefully-scribbled checklist, don't you think?



well, i'll get back to it now.... no new feature promises just yet - i'll just have a go at it and see what i come up with :thumbup:

 

[Moach]

minor progress report....

APU now consumes fuel - i'm underway to actually having it serve a purpose higher than the "just noise" currently featured :hmm:


ramcaster pumps are no longer electrically driven, (switch has been repurposed to "fuel transfer" function) - ramcaster fuel is now supplied by a much more powerful mechanically driven APU pump


wing lift to AoA coefficients have been revised - she flies a lot more naturally now (old code was a mostly unrevised ripoff from the stock DG)



the new engines model has been flight tested and proved adequate for most non-extreme cases.... you'll even see some light plasma form up during ascent - no flames tho, just a faint white shimmer around the airframe for a brief period around mach 10 or so



well, more when there's more - merry christmas, everyone! :thumbup:

 

[LuckyHendrix]

I decided to fire up the WIP3 today , starting to KSC and trying to reach ISS. The ascent was going pretty well but i messed up between T2 and T3, so I ran out of fuel at 6500 m/s and 100 km. so I decided not to give up and glide to nearest landing place. Only one little problem , the nearest base was edwards , other side of the globe , so I put the wings in Hyper cruise and maintained a 6° AOA.
I managed to glide around more than the half of the globe and land at Edwards , it was one of the most amazing flight I made in orbiter :thumbup:. Great addon Moach! though one thing that i think is absolutely needed to fly it properly is a correct autopilot , that maintains AOA in the same fashion as the one in the XR2, or may-be there's a MFD doing that and i haven't found it (other than attitudeMFD that only works with RCS)? Also a speedbrake would come in handy, I tried to fly the approach with a similar glideslope than with the shuttle , but it was much too steep 12° or so glideslope worked a lot better. Here a few photo of the landing :

 

[Moach]

well, thanks! :thumbup:

it makes my day when i see ppl are having a good time flying it - i mean, that's what i made it for (and to get some hands-on C++ practice going)

anyways - next release should feature a more concise engines simulation, one that keeps true to a constant-dynamic-pressure ascent more like a real scramjet would have it....


an autopilot is in at the short-term to-do list.... i've been monkeying around with PID loops and variations thereof at my "real life" job for the past few months or so...

and those things have "autopilot" written all over them (i read that's what PID controlers were invented for, actually) - so a nice atmospheric flight autopilot should be the next logical big step for me to get into :hmm:



but for now - i'm half-way done texturing that cargo bay.... it was long overdue - and it's looking much better now that it's not just a gray dull box thing anymore

i think i can work better this way, you know...

i'm finding i prefer to not promise any features towards new WIP releases - we're not running that kind of project here, anyways - this is a one man, cowboy-coding, DIY type of operation we got going on, so it's best not to commit to any deadlines or promises-to-keep at this time... i'd rather just keep doing what i find works best and let things evolve as they will....

so - no more feature promises for WIP releases - all intended features will become available when their respective time comes along... not sooner nor later...

and now - off to bed... it's friggin' 1:30AM, and my eyes are complaining that i keep forcing them to stay open, when they clearly would prefer not to be

 

[Cras]

Everything you posted sounds great to me.

Just post what you want us all to test out in the WIPs and I will do my best to put her though the paces.