How to imagine the Tenth Dimension

HiPotOk1978

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awesome video, I enjoyed the link afterwords of hot chicks pillow fighting actually less than the 10 dimensions video... does that qualify me as a nerd?
 

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If you thought that was interesting, try the home page for this site and view the Despondex video.
-Pv-
 

TSPenguin

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Interesting video.
This seems conflicting with the explanation of the 11th dimension of M-Theory as given in "The elegant universe" (a Nova program on PBS).
How would that 11th dimension fit in this explanation?
 

Quick_Nick

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Interesting video.
This seems conflicting with the explanation of the 11th dimension of M-Theory as given in "The elegant universe" (a Nova program on PBS).
How would that 11th dimension fit in this explanation?
I don't think I've ever seen the program you're talking about, but it's definitely possible that this video shows a completely different theory. Afterall, there are many ways in which you can think of the universe.
 

TSPenguin

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I believe all NOVA content is available online for american based users. It is annoyingly stretched but quite interesting.
 

Stripe

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The way I understood the 5th dimension was that if I had made different choices to what I did, then things would be different.
For example, when I was 12 I caught the bus to school on a very wintery and snowy day. However the bus got stuck on a hill, the driver went to get help, and me seeing a chance to escape school for the day, ran off the bus with the story to my parents that the bus never turned up.
If I had stayed on the bus I would of eventually turned up at school and gone through a day at school.

The film 'Sliding Doors' works on this principle of 'What if' and gives 2 completely different stories of different occurrences based on choices. As soon as you make each choice, you choose how you want your life to play out (to a certain extent).
 

KosmoKen

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I took a calculus theory class 2 semesters ago and we spent about 4 or 5 weeks actually trying to do math in 5+ dimensions just for the "fun" of it. How or why anyone does that for a living is beyond me but kudos to them, it is way over my head.
 

kwan3217

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Where to begin --

For starters, he only shows nine dimensions. A point is clearly zero dimensions, then he goes through three normal dimensions, numbers them 1, 2, 3, collapses this to a point (which doesn't add a dimension since points are zero-dimensional), numbers his next three dimensions 4, 5, 6, collapses them to a point, numbers his next three dimensions 7, 8, 9, collapses them to a point, and then calls that point dimension 10. This is inconsistent with all he had shown before.

It would be hard to describe his higher dimensions as being like either the normal three, or like the string theorists curled up dimensions. They don't even really deserved to be called such.

There is no evidence that the folding and forking he describes is real or possible. There is similarly no evidence for higher spatial dimensions as normally understood, but it is wrong to accept one set without proof but reject the other due to lack of proof.

General relativity seems to imply at least one higher dimension, other than the three of space and one of time. This is the direction in which space is curved. Just as the curved 1D surface of a ring implies a second dimension to curve through, and the curved 2D surface of the Earth implies a third dimension, it seems to me that the curvature of spacetime implies at least one higher dimension to curve through. This curvature dimension seems unrelated to either the string-theorists curled dimensions and folding and forking dimensions. However, no relativity book I have seen talks about this curvature dimension, so it may not be necessary.

One of the relativity books I have read gives an interesting test for whether something is a dimension or not: Is it possible in principle to rotate an object through it? For instance, you can make a map of the temperature of all points on a plane, but it doesn't mean that this temperature is a dimension. There is no sense in which you can rotate an object through temperature. The whole point of special relativity is that you can rotate an object through the combination of space and time, and in fact cannot avoid doing so when you speed an object up. Likewise, you can rotate an object through the string theory curled up dimensions, if the object is small enough.

It doesn't seem like the forking and folding dimensions are subject to being rotated through.

In any case, it seems that his dimensions add up only to nine, and there are several other kinds of dimensions he did not consider, which make it hard to accept the proposition that there are and can only be 10 dimensions.

For a good picture of higher dimensions, I recommend Flatland, available on project Gutenburg. Dimensions is a good visualization of the mathematical part of Flatland, plus a visualization (the best we can do) of the 4-dimensional regular solids, and a bunch of other good stuff. Euclidean geometry as currently understood now extends to an unlimited number of discrete straight dimensions.

Brian Greene's The Elegant Universe (the book, not the Nova show) gives a decent portrayal of the string theory idea of higher curled-up dimensions.
 

agentgonzo

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I wasn't massively impressed by the video. For starters, it seems to treat spatial and time dimensions as the same thing (which they aren't) and goes on to say that the 4th spatial dimension is time - which it definitely isn't. From there it just seems to apply the same laws (which consistently make a kind of sense, yet start from a faulty premise). In honesty, I got bored at the seventh dimension and stopped watching.

Imagining n-dimensions is easy from a mathematical point of view - you just work with the maths in the number of dimensions you like, but it doesn't help you visualise them. As Kwan mentioned, Flatlands does a much better job of helping you visualise higher (spatial) dimensions by firstly constraining yourself to two dimensions and then imagining a one-dimensional world. Then viewing a visitor from the third dimension in your two-dimensional point-of-view. Then leaving it up to you to apply the same logic to ourselves in the third dimension viewing a visitor from the higher fourth-dimensional space. It's also quite comedic in its portrayal of the world (class, sexism etc) when viewed from a 21st century perspective of pollitical correctness (it was written in the 1890s I believe)
 

TMac3000

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All a dimension is, is multiple instances of the dimension before it arranged in an orderly fashion. A point is zero dimensions, of course, and a line in the first dimension represents any number of points arraged in order. A square represents multiple lines, a cube represents multiple sqares, and so on. Continuing this logic, if time is a line (which is generally how we think of it), then the fifth dimension would be multiple timelines or alternate realities. A sort of time square, if you will. You can't really get any farther than that (make a time cube), since all universes exist in the same time line (er, time square).

The real point (no put intended) is that time travel is possible, but really quite pointless. Analogies of time such as rivers do not work, since you can travel upstream or downstream on a river. I think time is like a train. Not the railroad, mind you, but the train itself. The catch is, this train can travel only in one direction, and although it can turn, through your choices etc., it normally travels at only one speed: the speed of light. You are traveling through time at the speed of light while you are sitting in your chair. You can slow down time by traveling close to the speed of light, and even thoretically make it run backwards by exceeding the speed of light, but time can never flow any faster than it does while you are sitting here reading this post. If you want to go back in time a thousand years, you can, but you will be sitting in that time machine for a thousand years.
 
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