Updates Russia's Advanced Crew Transportation System's Development

Suzy

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Are there any illustrations of the ACTS/PPTS available (aside from the ones on RussianSpaceWeb.com, which aren't permitted to be used)? ...Or is it OK to use the ones already posted earlier here?

Also, is the spaceship going to land under parachutes, like Soyuz?
 
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SiberianTiger

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Are there any illustrations of the ACTS/PPTS available (aside from the ones on RussianSpaceWeb.com, which aren't permitted to be used)? ...Or is it OK to use the ones already posted earlier here?

Suzy, you should understand that absolutely nothing has been published by Enegria or Roscosmos themselves on the topic - except for some facts and words slipped through during various interviews, and the tender documentation. The article from which I've quoted the draft pictures was not endorsed by Energia as well. However, it correlates finely to the pictures shown during several presentations last year.

In other words, they are still keeping a very low profile about what they are actually making.

There is a 100% chance the final design will be different... If it's going to "be" at all. Every space enthusiast in Russia keeps his or her fingers crossed these days.

Also, is the spaceship going to land under parachutes, like Soyuz?

According to the article, it's going to land purely on solid fuel retro rockets: please review my text. No parachutes at all.

The next article I'll publish on the topic will cover the requirements specs for the launch vehicle.
 

Urwumpe

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According to the article, it's going to land purely on solid fuel retro rockets: please review my text. No parachutes at all.

Now, that will be fun :rofl: Honestly, didn't the USSR scrap the Zarya capsule project because installing massive solid rocket motors around it made painful loud noise inside the capsule? I wonder what should have changed now.
 

Jarvitä

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Now, that will be fun :rofl: Honestly, didn't the USSR scrap the Zarya capsule project because installing massive solid rocket motors around it made painful loud noise inside the capsule? I wonder what should have changed now.

You mean the TKS re-entry block? I thought it had parachutes?
 

SiberianTiger

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Now, that will be fun :rofl: Honestly, didn't the USSR scrap the Zarya capsule project because installing massive solid rocket motors around it made painful loud noise inside the capsule? I wonder what should have changed now.

The Zarya was supposed to use some kind of liquid propellant motors (using toxic fuels). And it was scrapped due to a personal discord between the design's author (Feoktistov) and Energia head (Semyonov) at the time. We still have feudal relations in our rocket/space industry, did you forget?

In a way, this new ACTS MAY BE a resurrection of the Zarya.
 

SiberianTiger

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An expert's speculative picture of the size and look of the lunar landers that might have been proposed to Roscosmos by the competing parties:

RussianLandersSm.gif


Left: the historical design of N-1/L-3 lander that was built for the N-1 Lunar program;
Middle: RKK Energia's lunar lander proposal
Right: Khrunichev GKNPTs' lunar lander proposal (presumably rejected)

The two pictures at right are drawn according to the known presentaion pictures and numbers made available to public
 

Pquardzvaark

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The rocket landing sounds cool, but I'd think liquid propellants would be better since they're more controllable than solids.

According to the article it seems they can't use parachutes because it could get blown off course. I guess they don't want it winding up in Kazakhstan...
 

tl8

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The rocket landing sounds cool, but I'd think liquid propellants would be better since they're more controllable than solids.

According to the article it seems they can't use parachutes because it could get blown off course. I guess they don't want it winding up in Kazakhstan...

I think working would be a better start then controllable. Liquids have a history at not quite working properly first time.

A solid is simple and even a basic vane or gimbal system should give enough control needed.

That said I think it would be possible to design a parachute that is controllable. Surely you could adapt a HAHO(High Altitude High Opening, Spec Ops) chute for the task
 

SiberianTiger

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Rockets add weight and complexity. Better to stay with parachutes?

You have to take into account the mass of the payload to figure out which design is better. For a Soyuz size (about 3 tonnes) parachutes are indisputably best.

For something wieghing more than 20 tonnes, adequate parachute systems become too awkward and unreliable; in addition, retro rockets are necessary nevertheless for the final meters deceleration, especially if there are any people inside. Here's the picture of an air-dropped 13 tonnes capable parachute system:
4110-10.jpg


The projected mass of the ACTS' return vehicle is about 8 tonnes, which puts it into the uncertainty margin where different solutions might be applicable, ranging from parachutes to wings and paved runway landing.

A different note here: the project has got a new acronym designation: instead of PPTS (Advanced Crew Transport System) it is now PTK NP (ПТК НП, пилотируемый транспортный корабль нового поколения) which stands for New Generation Crew Transport Spaceship (NG CTS).

And one more note on my personal preference on the public name proposal for the discussed spaceship. The idea was not mine, but I think that Kedr (Cedar) is a better name than Rus'. Defence follows:

1. Kedr was Gagarin's callsign.
2. It's not even slightly pretentious.
3. It's irrelevant to politics.
4. Trees called Kedr in Russian are ubiquitous in Siberia (where the ship will be launched from).
5. Sounds good in Russian.
6. Easily translated in other languages, at least, European: Cedar, Zeder, Сèdre, Cedro, add your own spelling.
7. These species of trees are long living.
8. The name should please the greens and reflects relative environmental friendliness of the project.
9. The return vehicle looks very much like a pine cone (not yet opened) if you turn it upside down.
 
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tblaxland

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The projected mass of the ACTS' return vehicle is about 8 tonnes, which puts it into the uncertainty margin where different solutions might be applicable, ranging from parachutes to wings and paved runway landing.
Orion Crew Module is about 8 tons also and they are using parachutes+water landing - understanding of course that water landing is not is probably not a practical option for PTK NP :p. The land landing version used parachutes+air bags but was designed out because it was too heavy (or the launcher too small but that's a different argument). Another option is somewhere between parachutes and wings - a parafoil (ala X-38 whose parafoil was nearly 700 square meters).
 

SiberianTiger

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Just could not resist posting it here. RKK Energia PTK NP design - Crew Stations (really developed within Energia)

0_9ef5_dba6a3bb_L.jpg


Top to bottom:

Captain
Pilots
Flight Attendant
Tourists
Radio Boy
Coal Heavers
 

Anariaq

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A different note here: the project has got a new acronym designation: instead of PPTS (Advanced Crew Transport System) it is now PTK NP (ПТК НП, пилотируемый транспортный корабль нового поколения) which stands for New Generation Crew Transport Spaceship (NG CTS).

Spaceship... My fantasy start to produce a russian version of Delta :p

Find it kinda weird that we a heading backward in to the "future" seems they are just copying the old Designs and make them bigger... an a little more advanced avionics :p

Was hoping that someone will actually start a research and build prototype airplane/shuttle designs. They seem more logical and less expensive than the 1 time use rocket America non included :p maybe 5 time. But still lots of the hardware is 1 time use. And don't think they are cheap ether. But maybe I'm just stupid.

But it will be :speakcool: if it is a "Spaceship" they are building ( or I just have a wrong meaning with the word "Spaceship" )

Anariaq
 

SiberianTiger

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The model of carrier rocket for PTK NP is on display at MAKS-2009 Air and Space Technologies Show near Moscow.

d932d78fe191.jpg


The information plaque:

1970833b32e2.jpg


It reads:

Samara State-owned Scientific and Production Space Centre

Medium Class Carrier Rocket With Increased Payload Capability

Application Scope|Launching manned and unmanned transport space ships and space station modules from Vostochny Cosmodrome to meet the goals of LEO manned flight programme; Launching domestic and international payloads of scientific, commercial and double purpose on near and far space missions
Mass at Launch, metric t|673
Stages|2
Fuel components|
- oxidizer|Liquid O2
- 1st stage blocks' fuel|Naphtyl
- 2nd stage block's fuel|Liquid H2
Payload Mass, kg|No less 20,000 at LEO
|up to 7,000 at GTO
|up to 4,000 at GEO
Rocket's Length, m|61.1
Development Status|The draft project is under development at Samara Space Centre in collaboration with Energia Rocket and Space Corp. and Makeyev Rocket Design Bureau
 

ijuin

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Find it kinda weird that we a heading backward in to the "future" seems they are just copying the old Designs and make them bigger... an a little more advanced avionics :p

Was hoping that someone will actually start a research and build prototype airplane/shuttle designs. They seem more logical and less expensive than the 1 time use rocket America non included :p maybe 5 time. But still lots of the hardware is 1 time use. And don't think they are cheap ether. But maybe I'm just stupid.

First of all, as the Space Shuttle has shown, we can not make a spaceplane cheap without first making it failure-resistant enough that we don't need to half-dismantle the whole vehicle to check every last nut, bolt, diode, and weld after every flight. Half of the turnaround cost for the Shuttle orbiters was from this need to repeatedly test every part.

That said, what limits us at present is weight--we just don't have the mass budget to spare to make the vessels' structure strong enough to have a safety factor of 2.0-2.5 like aircraft do--instead we have to shave it to something like 1.2-1.3, which means that we have almost no margin at all, which in turn is why we have to recheck everything so much.
 

SiberianTiger

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Here's a picture of construction plans map for Vostochny Space Centre
(51°42' N, 128°00' E, near Uglegorsk) displayed at MAKS-2009 air show. Legend translation is mine.

bce7cdf97128.jpg
 
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