Updates Orion (MPCV) Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter apollo13
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PhantomCruiser
Wanderer
Meh, we drop sonabouys with similar rotor blades on them, but there's a world of difference with the speeds involved. So I echo your sceptisism.
I think it might solve a few problems by creating an all new set. I certainly wouldn't want to be the first to ride it.
Maybe a drouge 'chute to control attitude and braking, get it down into the thicker air, then pop the rotors out?
I think it might solve a few problems by creating an all new set. I certainly wouldn't want to be the first to ride it.
Maybe a drouge 'chute to control attitude and braking, get it down into the thicker air, then pop the rotors out?
C3PO
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I like the idea of using an autogyro type landing, but not for a capsule. You would need telescopic or hinged blades. But for a reusable booster it would make much more sense.
I think you would need a drogue chute in any case.
RacerX
Donator
maybe mount small rockets on end of the blades to assist in auto-rotation just before slashdown. problem is those blades will more and likely degenerate when they hit the water
Last edited:
N_Molson
Addon Developer
I guess it is always possible to have explosive bolts that eject the blades when the capsule hits the water. The centrifugal force would send them away.
Maybe the blades could be deployed to 1/3 of their full length for the drogue phase, then fully deployed when the vertical speed is low enough.
Now I wonder if the "free spin" mode would be enough to ensure a safe landing. Or would an APU-fed engine be required ? In that case, a parachute is still necessary, in the case the engine fails.
Maybe the blades could be deployed to 1/3 of their full length for the drogue phase, then fully deployed when the vertical speed is low enough.
Now I wonder if the "free spin" mode would be enough to ensure a safe landing. Or would an APU-fed engine be required ? In that case, a parachute is still necessary, in the case the engine fails.
Kyle
Armchair Astronaut
Big development for Orion's design, ESA will be building the SM.
Guess we need a new Orbiter addon eh?
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/11/uk-steps-up-esa-commit-atv-service-module-orion/
Guess we need a new Orbiter addon eh?
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/11/uk-steps-up-esa-commit-atv-service-module-orion/
N_Molson
Addon Developer
Spaceflight Now
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=+2]ESA member states fund Orion service module[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-2]BY STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: November 21, 2012[/SIZE][/FONT]
Buoyed by a surprise investment from Britain, the European Space Agency secured approval from its member states on Wednesday to develop a service module for NASA's Orion deep space exploration vehicle, giving the continent a stake in human missions beyond low Earth orbit.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Artist's concept of an Orion spacecraft and the European-built service module. Credit: ESA[/SIZE][/FONT]
The initial investment, worth $320 million over the next two years, will start development of a propulsion and power module for the Orion multipurpose crew vehicle, or MPCV.
Britain, which has eschewed contributing the space station in the past, put the proposal over the top with a pledge to pay 20 million euros, or about $25 million, for the service module.
Jean-Jacques Dordain, ESA's director general, said the development could help a European astronaut secure a spot on Orion crews bound for deep space, the moon, or asteroids. The European-built service module will contain fuel tanks, provide propulsion, and hold Orion's solar panels to generate electricity. NASA plans to provide a maneuvering engine to mount on the service module.
In a meeting of government ministers in Italy on Tuesday and Wednesday, ESA's member states haggled over the agency's budget, eventually settling on 10 billion euros, or $13 billion, in spending from ESA's 20 member states over the next few years.
Top agenda items included decisions on a future European launcher and the extension of Europe's involvement in the International Space Station.
Governments agreed to upgrade Europe's existing Ariane 5 launcher and put off a decision on a replacement rocket until mid-2014. And officials came to a consensus to continue ESA's support of the space station until 2020, a pivotal decision which hinged on the Orion service module.
The first flight of a full-up Orion capsule is scheduled for launch in late 2017. The unmanned mission will launch on NASA's Space Launch System, a heavy-lifting rocket being developed to facilitate missions beyond Earth orbit.
The flight plan calls for the 16.5-foot-diameter capsule to fly around the moon and return to Earth on a voyage lasting more than one week.
"The first flight is to go to the moon," Dordain said. "And we can say we will be part of the first flight of the MPCV by delivering the service module.
Construction of the service module for the 2017 mission will pay back NASA for Europe's share of the space station's operating costs. The space station partners prefer supplying a "barter element" to reimburse NASA for the costs rather than paying in cash.
Europe's barter element for the station's operating costs through 2017 is the Automated Transfer Vehicle, a resupply freighter designed to haul propellant, air, food, water, spare parts and experiments to the outpost once per year.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Representatives from Europe's 20 member states, the European Commission, and Canada met in Naples, Italy, this week for a conference to decide the continent's priorities in space development. Credit: DLR/Thilo Kranz[/SIZE][/FONT]
ESA is discontinuing the ATV program after the fifth vehicle, which is expected to launch in 2014. The end of the ATV program leaves Europe owing NASA for operating expenses from 2017 until 2020, which is as far as the space station partners have agreed to operate the orbiting lab.
The funding shortfall from 2017 until 2020 is about 450 million euros, or $580 million. Europe and NASA have a preliminary agreement for ESA to build the Orion service module for the 2017 test flight, but European governments were required to approve the measure this week. A formal agreement between ESA and NASA could be signed in the next few months.
"This is the first time ESA is contributing to a crew transfer vehicle," Dordain said Wednesday. "This is certainly a breakthrough."
The U.S.-based Orion prime contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., has sidelined development of a U.S. service module to focus on construction and testing of the crew capsule, which is designed to carry four people.
The next time European government ministers meet in 2014, they will be asked to spend at least another $260 million on the service module program to see it through to flight in 2017.
France fought the German-backed proposal for the Orion service module, arguing it did not advance European technological development because it is similar to the service module used by the ATV.
The Orion service module, like the ATV propulsion section, will likely be manufactured by EADS Astrium in Bremen, Germany.
Germany is Europe's largest space station backer, committing $690 million to the program over the next several years.
An unmanned test flight of a prototype Orion vehicle is due for launch in September 2014 on a United Launch Alliance Delta 4-Heavy rocket, but it will not include a functional service module. The capsule will be sent into a high-altitude 3,600-mile-high orbit around Earth and then return back into the atmosphere, reaching speeds simulating a re-entry from a deep space mission to stress the capsule's heat shield.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Photo of the first space-bound Orion spacecraft, which arrived at Kennedy Space Center in Florida in late June for launch in late 2014. Credit: Walter Scriptunas II/Spaceflight Now[/SIZE][/FONT]
Johann-Dietrich Woerner, chairman of the German Aerospace Center, said there is only an agreement with NASA for one Orion service module so far.
"From our point of view, we would like to have this as the basis for future cooperation with the USA," Woerner said in an interview. "So far, we will build everything for the service module for the maiden flight in Europe, and then we will discuss future joint activities in that field. Right now, the target is the maiden flight of Orion to the moon."
Germany's overall ESA subscription - totaling $3.3 billion - makes it the largest contributor to the space agency. France agreed to spend $3 billion on ESA programs.
The UK eclipsed Italy to become the third-largest ESA member state, promising $1.9 billion. Italy pledged almost $1.5 billion.
The commitments are mostly spread over the next two-to-four years, depending on which programs each country is backing.
Britain's investment in the space station is part of a $100 million increase in space spending over the next five years. The British contribution to the Orion service module will include work on telecommunications and propulsion systems, according to the UK government.
"I will speak English because this is the price I have to pay for the UK to be on-board the ISS," Dordain joked in a press briefing. He later called the British decision an "historic event" for Europe.
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=+2]ESA member states fund Orion service module[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=VERDANA, ARIAL, HELVETICA, SANS-SERIF][SIZE=-2]BY STEPHEN CLARK
SPACEFLIGHT NOW
Posted: November 21, 2012[/SIZE][/FONT]
Buoyed by a surprise investment from Britain, the European Space Agency secured approval from its member states on Wednesday to develop a service module for NASA's Orion deep space exploration vehicle, giving the continent a stake in human missions beyond low Earth orbit.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Artist's concept of an Orion spacecraft and the European-built service module. Credit: ESA[/SIZE][/FONT]
The initial investment, worth $320 million over the next two years, will start development of a propulsion and power module for the Orion multipurpose crew vehicle, or MPCV.
Britain, which has eschewed contributing the space station in the past, put the proposal over the top with a pledge to pay 20 million euros, or about $25 million, for the service module.
Jean-Jacques Dordain, ESA's director general, said the development could help a European astronaut secure a spot on Orion crews bound for deep space, the moon, or asteroids. The European-built service module will contain fuel tanks, provide propulsion, and hold Orion's solar panels to generate electricity. NASA plans to provide a maneuvering engine to mount on the service module.
In a meeting of government ministers in Italy on Tuesday and Wednesday, ESA's member states haggled over the agency's budget, eventually settling on 10 billion euros, or $13 billion, in spending from ESA's 20 member states over the next few years.
Top agenda items included decisions on a future European launcher and the extension of Europe's involvement in the International Space Station.
Governments agreed to upgrade Europe's existing Ariane 5 launcher and put off a decision on a replacement rocket until mid-2014. And officials came to a consensus to continue ESA's support of the space station until 2020, a pivotal decision which hinged on the Orion service module.
The first flight of a full-up Orion capsule is scheduled for launch in late 2017. The unmanned mission will launch on NASA's Space Launch System, a heavy-lifting rocket being developed to facilitate missions beyond Earth orbit.
The flight plan calls for the 16.5-foot-diameter capsule to fly around the moon and return to Earth on a voyage lasting more than one week.
"The first flight is to go to the moon," Dordain said. "And we can say we will be part of the first flight of the MPCV by delivering the service module.
Construction of the service module for the 2017 mission will pay back NASA for Europe's share of the space station's operating costs. The space station partners prefer supplying a "barter element" to reimburse NASA for the costs rather than paying in cash.
Europe's barter element for the station's operating costs through 2017 is the Automated Transfer Vehicle, a resupply freighter designed to haul propellant, air, food, water, spare parts and experiments to the outpost once per year.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Representatives from Europe's 20 member states, the European Commission, and Canada met in Naples, Italy, this week for a conference to decide the continent's priorities in space development. Credit: DLR/Thilo Kranz[/SIZE][/FONT]
ESA is discontinuing the ATV program after the fifth vehicle, which is expected to launch in 2014. The end of the ATV program leaves Europe owing NASA for operating expenses from 2017 until 2020, which is as far as the space station partners have agreed to operate the orbiting lab.
The funding shortfall from 2017 until 2020 is about 450 million euros, or $580 million. Europe and NASA have a preliminary agreement for ESA to build the Orion service module for the 2017 test flight, but European governments were required to approve the measure this week. A formal agreement between ESA and NASA could be signed in the next few months.
"This is the first time ESA is contributing to a crew transfer vehicle," Dordain said Wednesday. "This is certainly a breakthrough."
The U.S.-based Orion prime contractor, Lockheed Martin Corp., has sidelined development of a U.S. service module to focus on construction and testing of the crew capsule, which is designed to carry four people.
The next time European government ministers meet in 2014, they will be asked to spend at least another $260 million on the service module program to see it through to flight in 2017.
France fought the German-backed proposal for the Orion service module, arguing it did not advance European technological development because it is similar to the service module used by the ATV.
The Orion service module, like the ATV propulsion section, will likely be manufactured by EADS Astrium in Bremen, Germany.
Germany is Europe's largest space station backer, committing $690 million to the program over the next several years.
An unmanned test flight of a prototype Orion vehicle is due for launch in September 2014 on a United Launch Alliance Delta 4-Heavy rocket, but it will not include a functional service module. The capsule will be sent into a high-altitude 3,600-mile-high orbit around Earth and then return back into the atmosphere, reaching speeds simulating a re-entry from a deep space mission to stress the capsule's heat shield.
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=-2]Photo of the first space-bound Orion spacecraft, which arrived at Kennedy Space Center in Florida in late June for launch in late 2014. Credit: Walter Scriptunas II/Spaceflight Now[/SIZE][/FONT]
Johann-Dietrich Woerner, chairman of the German Aerospace Center, said there is only an agreement with NASA for one Orion service module so far.
"From our point of view, we would like to have this as the basis for future cooperation with the USA," Woerner said in an interview. "So far, we will build everything for the service module for the maiden flight in Europe, and then we will discuss future joint activities in that field. Right now, the target is the maiden flight of Orion to the moon."
Germany's overall ESA subscription - totaling $3.3 billion - makes it the largest contributor to the space agency. France agreed to spend $3 billion on ESA programs.
The UK eclipsed Italy to become the third-largest ESA member state, promising $1.9 billion. Italy pledged almost $1.5 billion.
The commitments are mostly spread over the next two-to-four years, depending on which programs each country is backing.
Britain's investment in the space station is part of a $100 million increase in space spending over the next five years. The British contribution to the Orion service module will include work on telecommunications and propulsion systems, according to the UK government.
"I will speak English because this is the price I have to pay for the UK to be on-board the ISS," Dordain joked in a press briefing. He later called the British decision an "historic event" for Europe.
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Parabolic Arc: NASA Tests Orion Access Arm
The Orion spacecraft crew access arm seal prototype is being checked out at the Launch Equipment Test Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The tests include a mockup of the vehicle outer mold line and the White Room that would be at the end of the access arm. Testing simulated work going on in the White Room while attached to the Orion.
(Credit: NASA/Jim Grossmann)
Space Travel: Prototype Crew Access Arm Seal Tested for Orion
The Orion spacecraft crew access arm seal prototype is being checked out at the Launch Equipment Test Facility at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. The tests include a mockup of the vehicle outer mold line and the White Room that would be at the end of the access arm. Testing simulated work going on in the White Room while attached to the Orion.
(Credit: NASA/Jim Grossmann)
Space Travel: Prototype Crew Access Arm Seal Tested for Orion
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NASA News Release:
RELEASE : 12-441
NASA Puts Orion Backup Parachutes to the Test
Dec. 20, 2012
HOUSTON -- NASA completed the latest in a series of parachute tests for its Orion spacecraft Thursday at the U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground in southwestern Arizona, marking another step toward a first flight test in 2014. The test verified Orion can land safely even if one of its two drogue parachutes does not open during descent.
Orion will take humans farther into space than ever before, but one of the most challenging things the multipurpose vehicle will do is bring its crew home safely. Because it will return from greater distances, Orion will reenter the Earth's atmosphere at speeds of more than 20,000 mph. After re-entry, the parachutes are all that will lower the capsule carrying astronauts back to Earth.
"The mockup vehicle landed safely in the desert and everything went as planned," said Chris Johnson, a NASA project manager for Orion's parachute assembly system. "We designed the parachute system so nothing will go wrong, but plan and test as though something will so we can make sure Orion is the safest vehicle ever to take humans to space."
Orion uses five parachutes. Three are main parachutes measuring 116 feet wide and two are drogue parachutes measuring 23 feet wide. The 21,000-pound capsule needs only two main parachutes and one drogue. The extra two provide a backup in case one of the primary parachutes fails.
To verify Orion could land safely with only one drogue parachute, engineers dropped a spacecraft mockup from a plane 25,000 feet above the Arizona desert and simulated a failure of one of the drogues. About 30 seconds into the mockup's fall, the second drogue parachute opened and slowed the mockup down enough for the three main parachutes to take over the descent.
The next Orion parachute test is scheduled for February and will simulate a failure of one of the three main parachutes.
{...}
RELEASE : 12-441
NASA Puts Orion Backup Parachutes to the Test
Dec. 20, 2012
HOUSTON -- NASA completed the latest in a series of parachute tests for its Orion spacecraft Thursday at the U.S. Army Yuma Proving Ground in southwestern Arizona, marking another step toward a first flight test in 2014. The test verified Orion can land safely even if one of its two drogue parachutes does not open during descent.
Orion will take humans farther into space than ever before, but one of the most challenging things the multipurpose vehicle will do is bring its crew home safely. Because it will return from greater distances, Orion will reenter the Earth's atmosphere at speeds of more than 20,000 mph. After re-entry, the parachutes are all that will lower the capsule carrying astronauts back to Earth.
"The mockup vehicle landed safely in the desert and everything went as planned," said Chris Johnson, a NASA project manager for Orion's parachute assembly system. "We designed the parachute system so nothing will go wrong, but plan and test as though something will so we can make sure Orion is the safest vehicle ever to take humans to space."
Orion uses five parachutes. Three are main parachutes measuring 116 feet wide and two are drogue parachutes measuring 23 feet wide. The 21,000-pound capsule needs only two main parachutes and one drogue. The extra two provide a backup in case one of the primary parachutes fails.
To verify Orion could land safely with only one drogue parachute, engineers dropped a spacecraft mockup from a plane 25,000 feet above the Arizona desert and simulated a failure of one of the drogues. About 30 seconds into the mockup's fall, the second drogue parachute opened and slowed the mockup down enough for the three main parachutes to take over the descent.
The next Orion parachute test is scheduled for February and will simulate a failure of one of the three main parachutes.
{...}
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Parabolic Arc: NASA, Navy Prepare for Orion Capsule and Crew Recovery
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ESA: ESA workhorse to power NASA's Orion spacecraft
NASA:
NASAtelevision:
SPACE.com:
Florida Today: European Space Agency to proved service module for NASA's Orion capsule
SpaceRef: ESA Workhorse to Power NASA's Orion Spacecraft
NASASpaceflight: Orion’s ATV Service Module deal may allow ESA astro on EM-2 mission
NASA:
- NASA Signs Agreement for a European-Provided Orion Service Module
- Orion Service Module Briefing Graphics
NASAtelevision:
SPACE.com:
- NASA-European Partnership on Deep-Space Capsule a First
- Orion Explained: NASA's Multi-Purpose Crew Vehicle (Infographic)
Florida Today: European Space Agency to proved service module for NASA's Orion capsule
SpaceRef: ESA Workhorse to Power NASA's Orion Spacecraft
NASASpaceflight: Orion’s ATV Service Module deal may allow ESA astro on EM-2 mission
Kyle
Armchair Astronaut
Almost looks like that CTV for Orbiter, key word almost.
Unstung
Active member
I've wondered how the power output of ESA's solar panels will compare to NASA's original design. The surface area of the new solar arrays appear to be smaller, but finding a comparison between ESA's ATV and the older Orion service module will require some digging.
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Prophetic, were quite close
Crew Transfer Vehicule - Pegase - v2.1 Author: well & no matter
Author's Website
Crew Transfer Vehicule - Pegase - v2.1 Author: well & no matter
Author's Website
Capt_hensley
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Prophetic, were quite close
Crew Transfer Vehicule - Pegase - v2.1 Author: well & no matter
Author's Website
I'm using the concept as a tug(qty 2), and permanent propulsion module(qty8) for my GWS. These will be mass produced on a real production line, so as long as funding and parts are available you could get as many as you want. This is the best Idea I've seen come out of bi-country cooperation in a long time.
---------- Post added at 05:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------
I can't imagine that would be too difficult for you Don, I'll bet you don't have to spend too much time on it either.
We wait with baited breath...
