Star Wars Force Awakens [Spoiler thread]

[Zatnikitelman]

So I saw it again today, not much new, my initial thoughts still stand. Excellent movie, only one I've ever seen twice in just a few days in theaters!

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I did like that one Stormtrooper's weird electric melee weapon, though. Whatever that thing was, it stood up to a light sabre. Reminded me of something from Warhammer 40k or something.

Giving the Stormtroopers personalities and humanizing them is weird; it makes both less scary and more scary at the same time somehow.

In KOTOR, the vibro-blades could hold their own against a light saber. So it stands to reason that 1000's of years later there's still something that'll work pretty well.

When I first saw Kylo stop a blaster bolt mid-flight I though "Man, this dude got some skills", turns out with him being a Vader wannabe with anger issues takes away from the coolness of his initial entrance. Still, a neat trick. With ESB, Vader catches Hans bolt and redirects the energy to rip the blaster of of Hans grasp. Also, a neat trick.

I wish they hadn't thrown away so much book material. I though everyone knew the names of the Solo kids (Jacen, Jaina (twins) and Anakin being the baby).

Maybe they'll use some of it? Possibly Luke and Mara Jade got it on, with Rey as a result?

Carrie Fisher did a fantastic job I thought, very under-rated. Her look of sadness when she felt Han die. Good stuff.

 

[Andy44]

What the heck is KOTOR?

 

[Pipcard]

What the heck is KOTOR?

Knights of the Old Republic. A Star Wars RPG that takes place thousands of years before the films. (never played it)

 

[Frilock]

What the heck is KOTOR?

Kerbal Motor Company

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

... What the hell was that?

The Good:

-The new characters were great. Finns backstory actually made him a very interesting character, to the point where the film would have been much improved if it spent a significant amount of time at the start on his backstory (showing life as a stormtrooper...) instead of whatever the hell that was at the end...
-Some of the special effects were quite nicely done. The new hyperspace looked terrific, I liked most of the models used to create the scenes, and more than a few areas throughout the film just looked nice. For whatever reason the 3d seemed terrible, but that may have been due to sitting far to left of center in the theatre, so everything looked slightly weird.
-Harrison Ford was excellent, his acting at times almost being the only thing that holds the movie together. The script contained so many godawful corny lines that he managed to deliver without them becoming annoying as hell, and he mixed with the new characters very well. By comparison Fisher and Hamill might as well be cardboard cutouts
-The whole first third or so of the movie was great, the parallels to A New Hope were there, but not constant to the point where they made the whole thing unbearable. And then things went off a cliff...

The Ugly:

-Logic, Originality, and several planets die horrible deaths thanks to a new death star. Apparently in a film that never ends, we cant spare more than 15 seconds to find out what planets are being destroyed and why.
-Almost every single part of the Cantina scene is ripped off, detail for detail. The warning to "watch your step" before stepping inside. The slightly off alien music. The shameless pan over every single creature in the building, even though there is no reason to take the camera off of the main characters.
-It wasn't enough to rehash having a death star, apparently it also has to have a weak point. Oh, and its a race against the clock until the rebel base is destroyed, and there is a run down a trench... seriously?
-Kylo Ren is absolutely comical. Apparently our very intimidating villain needs to destroy every inanimate object in the same room as him, whenever something goes wrong, for about 5 minutes before he bothers to do anything productive


The odd thing that I realized about this film, so many of the things that always drive me nuts about Abrams films are often things that he technically doesn't control or create as the director, but they're so consistent throughout his films. Maybe he just habitually works with the same writers/design artists that always work these things into the films he directs? That being said, this film was his style absolutely cranked up to 11:

-The sets constructed from nothing but shiny chrome and red lights (unless theres a computer screen, in which case its always blue for some reason).
-The sound of a lightsaber now apparently needs to destroy my eardrums every time it gets activated, even though it sounds nothing like what it sounded like in the other six films.
-The nods to the original trilogy done with all of the subtlety of a hammer.
-Fight scenes that drag on forever with no change in the mood or pace of the scene (or, I don't know, the occasional line of dialogue?).
-Characters are introduced, given 5 minutes of character development, expected to somehow play a big role in important scenes, then completely disappear for the rest of the movie.
-Characters participate in an emotional, complicated moment that changes the outlook of the story, which is instantly reversed for no reason at all other than shock factor, and keeping the story moving in its original (predictable) direction.
-CGI heavy battle scenes that last for 5 minutes but don't advance the plot at all.
-Musical themes from previous movies blared as loud as possible during important scenes in an attempt to make them seem meaningful.
-And the jokes. His style of humour is actually pretty good. Except when it is forced into literally every scene in the movie, regardless of whether its needed or not, repeated about 20 times in 60 seconds until you wish they would just stop.

Absolutely hated it. Quite literally the worst film I have ever seen.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

Well, let's be honest for a minute and admit that this isn't exactly a serious movie. Picking it apart is easy. It's supposed to be fun and mindless entertainment. And I think it accomplishes that (in spades).

Kylo's temper tantrum when he finds the empty cell for instance. The two troopers walking by hold up short, give each other "the look" (not an easy feat considering they're both wearing helmets), turn around and go back to where they came from.

I remember long ago reading an article where Lucas discusses the Japanese "film" that gave him the inspiration. I'd seen it; two bumbling samouri and their adventures (iirc these wind up being C3PO and R2). It was a campy, slapstick movie.

Kind of like what we have with the Star Wars saga.

If you want good space cinema, The Martian, 2001 (hell even 2010, but not nearly as good as 2001). Apollo 13, Moon, etc... Some examples are better than others. But the point is Star Wars is anything but serious. Disengage the brain and have a few laughs.

See it slightly inebriated even?

At least there was no Jar Jar.

Absolutely hated it. Quite literally the worst film I have ever seen.

Clearly you've never seen Amazon Women on the Moon?

 

[K_Jameson]

Very good analysis: I agree almost totally, except for a couple of points that don't hurts me so much.

Anyway... this point alone is pretty enough to condemn this movie to eternal shame:

[...]It wasn't enough to rehash having a death star, apparently it also has to have a weak point. Oh, and its a race against the clock until the rebel base is destroyed, and there is a run down a trcnch... seriously?

"History repeats itself"... oh yes... this is the subtle message of the film. But, to me, it's only an excuse for making a movie going on the safe side and without thinking at the plot for more than five minutes.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

this is the subtle message of the film.

Thats subtle? How far does he have to go before it starts becoming obvious? :lol:

 

[K_Jameson]

But the point is Star Wars is anything but serious. Disengage the brain and have a few laughs.

I strongly disagree.
Star Wars was never intended ad a mere brain-offline entertainment.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I must disagree. Maybe I've seen it too many time under the influence?

C3PO, a bumbling and clumsy robot (albeit a good story teller with the sound effects and all)
R2, the only entity in the entire series to actually know "the whole story"
Han and Chewie, partners through and through. When coupled with the Falcon, far more valuable together than when separated.

Favorite line from Han - "Who's scruffy looking?"
Second favorite (serious scene from ESB) - "I know"

Honorable mention from RotJedi, Lea to Han "I know"

The books I'll give you, some were serious and pretty dark. But there is still an element of comedy sprinkled here and there. C3PO singing "Han Solo, what a man Solo" (although I can't remember the book).

Empire Strikes Back was pretty dark, and the best of the movies so far IMHO, and probably because of the drama involved. We see that Vader has a boss that even he fears, Solo gets frozen, Luke escapes death (I thought these things smelled bad on the outside), giant asteroid slug thingy, Tie Bombers! And the Executor (we brake for nobody).

I got my kid to start reading the Timothy Zahn books, she's suitably impressed. Enough that she changed the name of her car to the Wild Kaarde.

Mara Jade - I want to see her on screen, a redheaded bad with some Jedi skills.

 

[K_Jameson]

Not because you have the comedy in a movie, that movie can pretend that you turn off the brains to appreciate it.
Some coherence, some logic, some depth, some effort in the plot must be in there. Always. We're talking of Star Wars, the biggest fable of the modern times, not Transformers or some other crappy action movie produced in series.

 

[PhantomCruiser]

I'll certainly agree with you there. Transformers is the cutting edge of mindless entertainment.

I simply meant that Star Wars isn't intended to be thought provoking or "high drama", Lucas (and Spielberg) just wanted to make the kinds of movies that they wanted to see. With Star Wars and Raiders, they accomplished just that. And wound up pretty freaking rich as an added bonus.

Lucas himself was astonished at the amount of fandom that appeared.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Clearly you've never seen Amazon Women on the Moon?

Heh, I'll have to look that one up. Its impressive for a film like that intended to be a joke to be as bad as it was. :lol:

I think the reason I will hate this one more than any other is because I will have to hear all of the people I know try to claim it was okay against all logic, just because they cant bring themselves to hate Star Wars. (I kid you not, I heard those exact words used to try and justify the movie walking out of the theater)

And my reaction is just like this:

https://youtu.be/T5qalNX5G94?t=14s

 

[Lmoy]

Knights of the Old Republic. A Star Wars RPG that takes place thousands of years before the films. (never played it)

I've played KotOR at least once every other year since its release. It's one of my favourite games ever, with an excellent plot that feels distinctly "Star Wars". The sequel, The Sith Lords, has even better writing, though it's extremely dark by Star Wars standards. They're both great games if you're either a Star Wars or a classic RPG fan.

 

[APDAF]

I want that new Star Destroyer...
And X-wings look sexy in black...

And Stormtoopers are scary now not the joke they were in the original trilogy.

 

[Face]

I think the reason I will hate this one more than any other is because I will have to hear all of the people I know try to claim it was okay against all logic, just because they cant bring themselves to hate Star Wars. (I kid you not, I heard those exact words used to try and justify the movie walking out of the theater)

And my reaction is just like this:

https://youtu.be/T5qalNX5G94?t=14s

Hm. Must say I'm glad the self-proclaimed "Dread Lord of the Idiots" was not in the audience with me watching that movie, then. :lol:

 

[Marg]

After a few days my opinion hasn't changed - weak movie - weak plot, scenario. Too much "deja vu", several episodes questionable, for example, they were able to enter Starkiller base at the end so easily, it made me laugh (or cry?). And "main" death scene did not bother me anyway, "return of the jedi" featured much more emotional scenes - they were longer (Luke trying to convince Darth Vader). Even Terminator Genisys seemed better.
Ridiculous.... I can't believe all these good reviews.
There were some positives though:
1) Movie had quite natural colours (mostly), no teal backgrounds which are so typical these days. Before the film there was a trailer of the upcoming "BREAK POINT" movie. I immediately noticed unnatural greenish-teal colour balance in any scene (even outdoors).
I really hate this technique.

 

[Notebook]

Are Star Wars’ Stormtroopers the biggest secret army on Earth? Ruth Alexander investigates, and looks at some of the other numbers behind one of the most successful movie franchises in history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p039nljx

9 minute audio item from BBC World Service, might not get out the UK.

N.

 

[fsci123]

So apparently, the first order is a militarist government on the fringe of the Galaxy...a small fragment of what the empire used to be. Apparently it is experiencing a serious insurgency in the few areas they control.

The New republic is the government the rebel alliance established after they over ran the empire after the battle of endor. They covertly fund the Resistance...which is a ragtag militant group fighting the First Order.

The first order dosent seem to have complete control over its territory as shown by its limited operations on jakku and its surrender of law enforcement to mercenaries/criminal elements. Even in their core territories, their ability to function as a government is similar to how they would've handled their fringe territories in their heyday.

The new republic is doing slightly better...they have enough confidence in their ability to control their territories that they have abandoned a formal military. The only reason why they haven't eliminated the First Order is because they're not interested and their funding of the Resistance is merely symbolic...even though the resistance seems to be giving the FO a run for its money.

I really couldn't understand why the FO would spend all its money building wonder weapons when clearly the best option would be to consolidate control over the territory they have and try to function as a legitimate government. They're being beaten on a regular basis by the ragtag resistance and they absolutely have no hope trying to fight against the exponentially larger new republic.

That brings up the question on why the new republic didn't conduct a pre emptive strike against Death Star 3.0... They had some advanced warning.

The first order should be no more of a threat to the NR than North Korea is to the US.