The ISS de-orbit

[Urwumpe]

That would be ideal. To advance from maintaining the station to actually using it. However, even if we only consider this from a technical point of view, there are some problems. First one is that the FGB is the core segment the whole station is dependent upon as the cross point of intersegment communications and ducts. Some of the connections made are permanent. How do one pass this by as the thing gets old beyond possibility of repairing?

I would say, it's no problem but a challenge. No connection made by man is for ever. There is always a way to cut them - and if cutting has to be understood literally. The main problem I see is, that the functions of FGB and SM have to be replicated first or the station is out of control for the duration of the repairs.

Maybe it would be better to replace FGB and SM at the same instant with a new service module.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Maybe it would be better to replace FGB and SM at the same instant with a new service module.

Attaching that one to Node 3?

 

[Urwumpe]

Attaching that one to Node 3?

Would throw the ISS out of balance, so it is bad. But maybe it can get installed behind the current service module before the beginning of the repairs - or something else gets installed as ballast.

It is really Cardiac surgery... not easy at all. Maybe it would be possible by installing a keel structure over the whole russian segment.

Maybe it could also make sense to use the CBM as standard for the internal connections of all components of the ISS, as it has many advantages over russian side docking ports.

 

[SiberianTiger]

Maybe it could also make sense to use the CBM as standard for the internal connections of all components of the ISS, as it has many advantages over russian side docking ports.

Cannot really do a drawing right now, but my idea is to stack the FGB/SM replacement modules alongside with the existing SM and FGB, attaching them via small adapters from the nadir side. This way they are kept away from the area of heat radiators rotation. Do you have any specification or diagram of the connections running between FGB and Node 1?

 

[Urwumpe]

Cannot really do a drawing right now, but my idea is to stack the FGB/SM replacement modules alongside with the existing SM and FGB, attaching them via small adapters from the nadir side. This way they are kept away from the area of heat radiators rotation. Do you have any specification or diagram of the connections running between FGB and Node 1?

I can look for them, there are some specials related to the Data Management System, as well as now-inactive life support system connections.

Important seem to be the ARCU and the RACU units, which convert power from US-side 124V to russian-side 28.5V and back. Usually, the Russian side is powered by the US-side, with the reverse only used in emergency.

There are no TCS interfaces between russian modules or the Russian modules and the US side.

 

[Kyle]

Just to let you know, The Space Station cannot last forever, computers fail, stuff gets to cluttered, the space station will at one point be a Mir, and they will have to de-orbit it.
With a Moon base however, I do not know.

 

[Dogsbd]

If commercial space access "takes off" (no pun intended) it could be possible that ISS could end up in private hands and be kept in operation for many years to come. An agreement could be made where the ISS partners could lease ISS to a private consortium with some strings attached allowing the ISS partners some usage as well. The lease could even be free, since the only other option is ISS being destroyed. If launch costs to LEO are brought down considerably it could become affordable for some group to keep ISS "shipshape" for many years past it's planned expiration date.

 

[Urwumpe]

Just to let you know, The Space Station cannot last forever, computers fail, stuff gets to cluttered, the space station will at one point be a Mir, and they will have to de-orbit it.
With a Moon base however, I do not know.

Things can get repaired or replaced. The question is just if the effort is worth it. If the ISS gets impossible to get kept, it will get deorbited. But when this happens, it will be a bad reference of the state of the spaceflight industry. It would mean we are not yet ready to stay in space, humanity just will keep on making many short visits.

 

[Bj]

But when this happens, it will be a bad reference of the state of the spaceflight industry. It would mean we are not yet ready to stay in space, humanity just will keep on making many short visits.

But isnt this true? the ISS is dependent on supplies from Earth. However the moon base just might be able to harvest its own food from the sun (when it gets it, and when it doesnt then they will have to eat frozen food... ) That way they will be independent and humanity could live in space... or a vacuum at least.

 

[Urwumpe]

But isnt this true? the ISS is dependent on supplies from Earth. However the moon base just might be able to harvest its own food from the sun (when it gets it, and when it doesnt then they will have to eat frozen food... ) That way they will be independent and humanity could live in space... or a vacuum at least.

WHEN will the moon base be capable of that? Can you imagine how much farm land you alone require each month?

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

I like the theoretical idea of putting it into a higher orbit.

But it will be absolutely useless there, since without resupply and maintenance it turn in time into an airless rotten hulk, leaving trace of space debris as it turns around, dangerous to get in close. Not exactly what a monument is supposed to be.

I don't completely understand this.
When it is abandoned in a high orbit, what could possibly damage it so bad that things separate from it? I can imagine a lot of parts will be internally damaged over time, by radiation. And I also can imagine that all the air will be leaked out at one point in future.
But wouldn't the whole station stay 'visually' as new?

regard,
mcduck

 

[Ghostrider]

With a Moon base however, I do not know.

I wouldn't like to be the one who has to deorbit the Moon.

 

[Urwumpe]

But wouldn't the whole station stay 'visually' as new?

No, the radiation does also damage the hull structures, but at a much slower rate. MMODs will slowly mill the hull away. Also, it depends on how high you get - if you are still in range of the upper atmosphere, free radicals (not Iran) will damage the hull - the brown color of Mir at the end of it's life came from these - at the beginning it was as white as the ISS modules.

 

[Bj]

WHEN will the moon base be capable of that? Can you imagine how much farm land you alone require each month?

2200 :lol:

So as of now, humans cannot live in space independently

 

[SiberianTiger]

I don't completely understand this.
When it is abandoned in a high orbit, what could possibly damage it so bad that things separate from it?

Perhaps I exaggerate it a little bit, but the answer is two words: space junk. Don't forget that the ISS is a much less solid structure than most satellites. It has lots of cableware, insulation, sources of ice particles, details that may get loose. From time to time such things will separate from the hull and get diverted in a close, but not matching trajectories. Some of them will return and kick away more junk, and so on.

 

[Urwumpe]

2200 :lol:

So as of now, humans cannot live in space independently

Not without bringing lots of stuff into space first.

 

[Dogsbd]

But when this happens, it will be a bad reference of the state of the spaceflight industry. It would mean we are not yet ready to stay in space, humanity just will keep on making many short visits.

Exactly.

Hence my hope that prior to ISS ending its official life the health of private access to space will be such that someone will step up and make a deal. It isn't that I am so enamored with ISS, I'm not, I just hope that the space access business is strong enough that someone will see an opportunity and be able to afford to act on it.

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

No, the radiation does also damage the hull structures, but at a much slower rate.

I looked up several MIR images from over its lifetime, and noticed a color difference indeed. Parts of the ISS are now already probably not as white as they where back in 1998.
But let's talk about the structural damage, at orbital altitudes in the order of several (tens of) thousands km above the surface. Let's imagine we could find a place between (or beyond?) the inner/outer radiation belts. The damage you say that is able to let such a structure as the ISS fall apart, wouldn't this take a long time?
What timespan do I have to think about, I mean the timespan until the moment where parts actually fall apart, several hundreds of years?

regards,
mcduck

 

[Bj]

I'm not, I just hope that the space access business is strong enough that someone will see an opportunity and be able to afford to act on it.

Who could even privately afford the ISS? NASA has support from the entire USA. Even if someone could afford it, what would they get off of it? I mean, if say I bought it, (example ) how could I turn profit from it?

 

[SiberianTiger]

Things can get repaired or replaced. The question is just if the effort is worth it. If the ISS gets impossible to get kept, it will get deorbited. But when this happens, it will be a bad reference of the state of the spaceflight industry. It would mean we are not yet ready to stay in space, humanity just will keep on making many short visits.

Perhaps, it will only mean that the ISS would be regarded a product of the technology of its era and many compromises. Maybe it will pave a way for the new generation of space stations, more specifically specialized, with easy bulding and parts replacement in mind. This discussion deserves a better topic than just deorbiting the ISS...