Iran 'fires satellite into space'

[GregBurch]

Wait, what?

I don't know about you, but I think if God was choosing here, He'd pick a peaceful company before a bunch of lunatic muslims bent on recreating Holocaust (which they don't believe happened in the first place).

I don't get it -- they say god's on their side! Apparently "the international community" wants to believe them when they say they're developing nuclear and ballistic missile technology for peaceful purposes ... so why not believe them about the god thing?

 

[eveningsky339]

I think the world would be a much better place if the Middle East simply converted to something a little more peaceful, such as Buddhism or Catholicism...

Does anyone think this Allah character could use some remedial education in Ethics 101? Eh, I'm getting off topic.

 

[Jarvitä]

I think the world would be a much better place if the Middle East simply converted to something a little more peaceful, such as Buddhism or Catholicism...

Does anyone think this Allah character could use some remedial education in Ethics 101? Eh, I'm getting off topic.

Agreed on both points. Seriously, those guys could use a little Reformation of their own.

I don't get it -- they say god's on their side! Apparently "the international community" wants to believe them when they say they're developing nuclear and ballistic missile technology for peaceful purposes ... so why not believe them about the god thing?

Because they're muslims.

 

[tl8]

Agreed on both points. Seriously, those guys could use a little Reformation of their own.

Hold up there guys. Back on topic now

 

[tblaxland]

Now they want to put men on their rockets

Iran plans to launch humans into space:
http://space.newscientist.com/artic...e.html?DCMP=ILC-hmts&nsref=news2_head_dn14576

 

[simonpro]

I think this thread could do without the sarcasm and attitude directed towards the Muslims, it's a disgrace.

Anyway, I came in to say that the Shahab-3 has a maximum range of 2500km, but has yet to be tested beyond 1800km (because of the neighbouring nations, I'd guess).
Also, their rocket launch earlier this week may have been a success. 2 European tracking agencies reported an object in orbit, but the US tracking does not. It's possible that the European stations are falsely tracking something from the Proton launch, but I doubt it.

 

[Spacedoughnut]

Radar hasn't picked up any new satellites, so the Iranians are lying if they say they put a satellite in orbit.
Still, the test launch seems to have been a success, so congratulations to them on that achievement.

And notebook, no: The one a few months ago was a suborbital launch, not dissimilar to Black Brant.

From when they zoomed out to the Cam in mecca it could have been a photo shopped bright light. You couldn't see the rocket as it was ascending.

 

[Linguofreak]

Greg,
about the effects of a nuclear attack on Israel: any nuclear attack, even if only a single, small nuclear warhead gets through the ABM defenses, would have devastating consequences. Although such a scenario would leave Israel with second-strike possiblities, long-term survival will be difficult to say the least. I completely agree with everything else you're saying, though.

"Long term" is relative. Since ballistic missiles tend to reach a significant fraction of orbital velocity, and the half-orbit time in LEO tends to be about 45 minutes, and nukes tend to be *really* destructive, "long term" tends to mean something like "tens of hours" when nuclear war is involved.

 

[Urwumpe]

More information on the rocket:

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/

 

[cjp]

More information on the rocket:

http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/

If the Iranians send this guy some more pictures, he'll fix all the technical issues they're having!

 

[Urwumpe]

If the Iranians send this guy some more pictures, he'll fix all the technical issues they're having!

They don't send him pictures. :lol: The sources are the Iranian television and newspapers.

 

[GregBurch]

I think this thread could do without the sarcasm and attitude directed towards the Muslims, it's a disgrace.

If the Vatican had tried and failed to launch a rocket, I'd be suggesting that they get the pope to apply a little infallibility to the design. Iran is a theocracy, after all.

And Iran is developing nuclear weapons, so anything that has to do with weapons delivery technology, which this news item does, seems to be fair game for discussion of the nuclear weapon issues ....

As the kids say, "...just sayin' ..."

 

[SiberianTiger]

Also, their rocket launch earlier this week may have been a success. 2 European tracking agencies reported an object in orbit, but the US tracking does not. It's possible that the European stations are falsely tracking something from the Proton launch, but I doubt it.

Would you kindly post here a link for that information?

 

[Usonian]

What if they "shoot one nuke" at Israel? Then what?

It seems to be general knowlege that Israel has "the bomb" so I would hope that America and Europe would stay out of the way and let Israel defend/avenge itself.

An exchange of two or three atom bombs in the Middle East will not destroy the planet - and would probably not even destroy Israel or Iran. The cost would be horrible for everybody and very likely nothing would be settled. It sure would insert discussion of nuclear non-proliferation and disarmament into the news cycle (at least until the next sex scandal or baby-fallen-in-a-well drama...:dry. This "happy" outcome assumes that when one or two bombs start flying the atomic superpowers stay out of it.

Between Israel vs. Iran, India vs. Pakistan, and North Korea vs. everybody I really expect such a small-scale exchange of half-a-dozen bombs to take place in my lifetime (and I will soon be 52). I don't see any way for the us to stop it from happening. The best outcome I can imagine is that it everyone else holds their fire, and that humanity generally is put off on using nuclear weapons for another 50 years.

What if they develop a nuclear weapon and then, some time later a nuke goes off in an American or European city, but the Iranians deny responsibility, saying that some group not connected to them did it? Than what?

Then we investigate, track down the source of the bomb as best we can, and obliterate whoever is responsible. We take it like men, pull ourselves together and respond with thoughtfull savy...

Or we could react as we did to 9/11, alternating between abject cowering, bullying swagger, and thoughtless flailing at every scary bogeyman on the planet. We could forego calm courage and abandon all our principles, in hopes of being completely safe. We could recall George W's stirring clarion call to action... we could all go shopping.

Before that happens we could take multiple measures: Increase surveillance of Iran (especially human intelligence), establish cautious relations with Iran (keep your enemies close - it has worked with Russia and China), and most of all disentangle ourselves from the region by eliminating our dependance on Middle Eastern oil. They don't "hate us for our freedom," they hate us because we are there (and because we support Israel). The "simple" solution is to get out. Ultimately, Iran has serious prospects for developing a bomb because they have lots of money, and that money comes from us.

What we do not need is another half-baked "pre-emptive warfare" misadventure.

 

[Chipstone306]

It does bring some concern on Irans nuclear intentions however, ANY country who begins space research can be accused of building technology for nuclear weapon ( dual-use ) I guess on a lighter note we may have to start addons for the Iran space program

 

[GregBurch]

It does bring some concern on Irans nuclear intentions however, ANY country who begins space research can be accused of building technology for nuclear weapon ( dual-use ) I guess on a lighter note we may have to start addons for the Iran space program

I would disagree with the former assertion since, for instance, no one would think of accusing Japan's space program to be heading in the direction of a nuclear weapon delivery system.

As for the latter, I saw a picture of I'm-A-Dinner-Jacket grinning at some Iranian technicians showing him what, in context, must have been the rocket that's being discussed. It looked to me to be pretty much a V-2/Scud/Redstone clone.

 

[Chipstone306]

Lol. Good point Greg. So as you see it, Iran is a country that perhaps been made to seem a little too evil? much like the former USSR was during the cold war?

 

[simonpro]

Would you kindly post here a link for that information?

The data comes from colleagues at ESA's Kiruna tracking station, they report that some of ESA's other stations (specifically Cebreros and Kourou) picked up a satellite shortly after the Iranian launch. The details fit with what I'd expect, but they're always picking up things that turn out to be nothing so it could well be a false hope.
The US data comes from NORAD, which is (iirc) available online somewhere.

Usonian, nice post.

I would disagree with the former assertion since, for instance, no one would think of accusing Japan's space program to be heading in the direction of a nuclear weapon delivery system.

Japan is the exception to the rule. Every other country that has developed spacecraft launch vehicles has also developed ballistic missiles.

 

[GregBurch]

Lol. Good point Greg. So as you see it, Iran is a country that perhaps been made to seem a little too evil? much like the former USSR was during the cold war?

No -- I don't think it's been made to seem evil enough. The West is crawling with apologists for a regime that hangs people for being homosexual.

Japan is the exception to the rule. Every other country that has developed spacecraft launch vehicles has also developed ballistic missiles.

Well, I'm guessing Australia and Canada and various Scandinavian countries have developed ballistic missiles domestically, but no one would accuse them of having in mind a nuclear weapons system in doing so.

 

[simonpro]

No -- I don't think it's been made to seem evil enough. The West is crawling with apologists for a regime that hangs people for being homosexual.

This is probably getting hopelessly offtopic but I disagree with you. Iran isn't a fundamentally evil place. It's people are normal (if for the most part quite religious), it's leaders care about the country and their science/economy is strong.
I have no idea why the West continues to make Iran out as such a bogeyman, it's precisely that approach which has led to the Iranian leadership disliking us. If we left them alone we'd probably have a lot less problems with them.

And as for hanging homosexuals, a lot of people in Denmark think America is barbaric for killing murderers, whereas a lot of Americans (and myself) think differently. Cultures are different, people see different crimes with differing degrees of severity.
Whlie I think there's no excuse for some of the more inhumane punishments (such as stoning) I don't have a problem with Iran killing rapists, for instance.

Well, I'm guessing Australia and Canada and various Scandinavian countries have developed ballistic missiles domestically, but no one would accuse them of having in mind a nuclear weapons system in doing so.

Sweden has run ballistic missiles development programmes (although none resulted in a finished missile), and did indeed indulge in a lengthy debate over whether they should be nuclear armed. We chose not to because of cost reasons.

Denmark hasn't developed any ballistic missiles, and neither has Norway.
Australia has never developed missiles, but has been involved in the British nuclear weapons programme (though not through any choice of their own).
Canada was a leading supplier of nuclear material, and helped both the US and Britain to develop nuclear weapons. They also deployed American weapons with Canadian troops in Germany.