Idea 60's Moon Probes (Ranger, Lunar Orbiter, and Surveyor)

[1987VCRProductions]

I think it would be a fun idea to have up to date addons for the spacecraft the United States shot at the Moon before the Apollo Program. I know addons exist for Ranger and Surveyor but they're quite old. They could have some sort of smart .dll autopilot that could launch the Atlas boosters and perhaps perform TLI burns, MCC burns, and (in the case of Surveyor) land the craft at their historic locations ala the Luna 9 and 10 addon.

---------- Post added at 03:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:37 AM ----------

The Lunar Orbiter probably doesn't need all the extra autopilots though, LunarTransferMFD could handle that. Ranger would only need the TLI and MCC autopilots and Surveyor would require a TLI, MCC, and a landing autopilot. All spacecraft would require a launch autopilot that would put them in their historic Earth orbits, similar to the AMSO launch autopilot.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I think it would be a fun idea to have up to date addons for the spacecraft the United States shot at the Moon before the Apollo Program. I know addons exist for Ranger and Surveyor but they're quite old. They could have some sort of smart .dll autopilot that could launch the Atlas boosters and perhaps perform TLI burns, MCC burns, and (in the case of Surveyor) land the craft at their historic locations ala the Luna 9 and 10 addon.

Hmmm...

http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Vessel_Tutorial_1

and

http://www.orbiterwiki.org/wiki/Vessel_Tutorial_2

I read these through as a young yuppie developer, but I never used them for the surveyor thing. I could whip up the surveyor for you, provided that the mesh links still work.

Good idea though, I wouldst also like to see this done

 

[boogabooga]

I think it's more fun to try yourself in IMFD or TransX than to have an autopilot for everything. Not even AMSO has a TLI autopilot. It's a good challenge.

As for launch autopilot, we have options, like LaunchMFD, or using Velcro launch vehicles, or even multistage with a good guidance file.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

Well, LunarTransferMFD would be perfect by itself for the TLI burns. I'm worried about the MCCs though. The Surveyors and Rangers were aimed at specific points. I don't like Multistage Launch Autopilots, mainly for the reason that they follow a predetermined path (basically, they're flying blind). Multistage Guidance files can undershoot, or in many cases, overshoot the historic orbital values. I really like the autopilots that actually try to aim for the historic orbits. Velcro rockets just fly downrange and when they reach a predetermined altitude they go into a altitude hold mode. Velcro rockets, for me, always end up with very elliptical orbits with low perigees and high apogees. Many times with Velcro, I'll let it do its roll and pitch program and then I'll take over manual control.

As for programming, I'm not sure how I would go about that. Don't get me wrong, I grew up around computers, but I just don't know how to program. It would be a better idea for someone who knew what they were doing to make this. If I was as talented as some of you people, I wouldn't be making mere soundpacks. I just thought it would be a fun project for someone who had the time.

 

[Cras]

If your ship uses RCS for control during launch, and not something more advanced like thrust vectoring, I recommend using LaunchMFD then. Beautiful add-on really, works every time for me.

As for Lunar Transfer MFD, you can set a specific place to target for lunar orbit, and it works quite well. used it for apollo landing sites, and for getting to brighton beach. Could always use IMFD also.

 

[boogabooga]

Surveyor never entered lunar orbit, so you might need IMFD for a proper landing.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I know that Surveyor and Ranger never went into Lunar orbit. I want to aim them at their historical landing and impact points with MCCs but I'm not sure how to do it with IMFD or any other MFD for that matter.

 

[Cras]

Hmm.....well just kind off the top of my head, you use LTMFD to get your track to go over the target in your TLI and subsequent TLCCs....but then manually do the LOI until you see in the map program that you will impact the target.

Since the moon has no atmosphere, that indicator will be fairly accurate....though I am not usually liking the idea of doing an 'eye ball' burn. I wonder if you could get the IMFD re-entry program to get you to hit the target. Keep in mind tho, once you hit that target, you will not stay there. Hitting the moon like that is not gonna bring you to a stop in some nice impact crater, you are gonna bounce and skip a loooooong way until you eventually stop.

 

[4throck]

This is interesting.

Some code that detects your "crash" and computes how many km you were off target would be nice indeed.
It can be done in LUA, so a "simple" sc3 vessel is all that's needed.

As for guidance, the best option is to research and find the actual parameters that were used. Sometimes the information does exist, under the form of "tracking experiment" or a similar name.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

I've been reading up on it between classes on Wikipedia. The rangers were put initially into an Earth parking orbit before they were sent out to the Moon. The Surveyors bypassed Earth orbit and did sort of a direct ascent ala Lunas 1, 2, & 3.

 

[4throck]

From http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4210/pages/Ch_9.htm

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

This is interesting.

Some code that detects your "crash" and computes how many km you were off target would be nice indeed.
It can be done in LUA, so a "simple" sc3 vessel is all that's needed.

As for guidance, the best option is to research and find the actual parameters that were used. Sometimes the information does exist, under the form of "tracking experiment" or a similar name.

Can you do autopilots in LUA as well? I agree that autopilots aren't necessary for everything, but being able to run a "perfect" simulation of the historical flight is nice too.

Edit: Just for the record, this was the original Surveyor authors explanation

Many spacecraft can and in fact have been simulated with Vinka's spacecraft.dll. This method uses a text file to describe a spacecraft, and a general purpose DLL to interpret it.

The reason that this spacecraft must be written from scratch, and not use something like spacecraft.dll, is that when the vernier engines are on, they are used to control attitude as well as provide thrust. Two of the three engines use differential thrust to control pitch and yaw, and the third is mounted on a pivot to control roll. This effect cannot be done with spacecraft.dll, and therefore demands a custom DLL. Besides, I felt like writing a DLL, just to learn how to do it.

I understand that limitation is still present in SC3 as well. I guess that's not a complete showstopper for that route, but there are good reasons why SC3 just isn't sufficient for something like this. Unmanned landers, especially old ones like this, were done through very tricky, absolute edge of the envelope engineering, and SC3 is too coarse a tool to use for something like that. I almost wish there was a way to directly read code from cfgs, and order the DLL to use it, but thats a story for another day...

Anyways, Im going to see if I can do the Surveyor for you. With any luck, I might have it completed by the end of the week, since the author made the tutorial like a ready-to-go project.

 

[1987VCRProductions]

From http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4210/pages/Ch_9.htm

Thanks! It looks like an interesting read! I'll have to dig into it later!

 

[4throck]

Can you do autopilots in LUA as well? ... are good reasons why SC3 just isn't sufficient for something like this

I'm not that far into LUA to be able to do it, but yes LUA can do autopilots. It can do almost everything that custom code does.

Look into the Orbiter help for this:

Thruster management 
v:create_thruster Add a logical thruster definition for the vessel. 
v:del_thruster Delete a logical thruster definition. 
v:clear_thrusters Delete all thruster and thruster group definitions. 
v:get_thrustercount Returns the number of thrusters currently defined. 
v:get_thrusterhandle Returns the handle of a thruster specified by its index. 
v:get_thrusterresource Returns a handle for the propellant resource feeding the thruster. 
v:set_thrusterresource Connect a thruster to a propellant resource. 
v:get_thrusterpos Returns the thrust force attack point of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterpos Reset the thrust force attack point of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterdir Returns the force direction of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterdir Reset the force direction of a thruster. 
v:get_thrustermax0 Returns the maximum vacuum thust rating of a thruster. 
v:set_thrustermax0 Reset the maximum vacuum thrust rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrustermax Returns the pressure-dependent maximum thrust rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterisp0 Returns the vacuum fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating for a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterisp Returns the pressure-dependent fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating for a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterisp Reset the fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterlevel Returns the current thrust level setting of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterlevel Set thrust level for a thruster. 
v:inc_thrusterlevel Apply a change to the thrust level of a thruster. 
v:inc_thrusterlevel_singlestep Apply a change to a thruster level for the current frame only. 
Thruster group management 
v:create_thrustergroup Combine thrusters into a logical group. 
v:del_thrustergroup Delete a thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouphandle Returns the handle of a default thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouphandlebyindex Returns the handle of a user-defined (nonstandard) thruster group. 
v:get_groupthrustercount Returns the number of thrusters assigned to a logical thruster group. 
v:get_groupthruster Returns a handle for a thruster that belongs to a thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouplevel Returns the mean thrust level for a thruster group. 
v:set_thrustergrouplevel Sets the thrust level for all thrusters in a group. 
v:inc_thrustergrouplevel Increments the thrust level for all thrusters in a group. 
v:inc_thrustergrouplevel_singlestep Increment the thrust level for the group thrusters for the current frame only.

For the vernier engines, you can "enhance" your SC3 config in LUA and try to do them. The only problem I see is that it does not receive keyboard inputs.
But you can change trust direction, sure, or simply add the necessary force vector, change center of gravity, etc. The only problem is getting them to work without keyboard input. Can't understand why all these commands are available if their usefulness is so limited. Perhaps on the next Orbiter version...


Anyway I recommend you try it. Simply start with a simple and familiar SC3 vessels, and load a LUA script on top that adds / changes some parameters.
Of course, you can define the entire vessel in LUA. I haven't tried that yet, but it is more powerful than sc3, and not that hard.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

I'm not that far into LUA to be able to do it, but yes LUA can do autopilots. It can do almost everything that custom code does.

Look into the Orbiter help for this:

Thruster management 
v:create_thruster Add a logical thruster definition for the vessel. 
v:del_thruster Delete a logical thruster definition. 
v:clear_thrusters Delete all thruster and thruster group definitions. 
v:get_thrustercount Returns the number of thrusters currently defined. 
v:get_thrusterhandle Returns the handle of a thruster specified by its index. 
v:get_thrusterresource Returns a handle for the propellant resource feeding the thruster. 
v:set_thrusterresource Connect a thruster to a propellant resource. 
v:get_thrusterpos Returns the thrust force attack point of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterpos Reset the thrust force attack point of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterdir Returns the force direction of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterdir Reset the force direction of a thruster. 
v:get_thrustermax0 Returns the maximum vacuum thust rating of a thruster. 
v:set_thrustermax0 Reset the maximum vacuum thrust rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrustermax Returns the pressure-dependent maximum thrust rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterisp0 Returns the vacuum fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating for a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterisp Returns the pressure-dependent fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating for a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterisp Reset the fuel-specific impulse (Isp) rating of a thruster. 
v:get_thrusterlevel Returns the current thrust level setting of a thruster. 
v:set_thrusterlevel Set thrust level for a thruster. 
v:inc_thrusterlevel Apply a change to the thrust level of a thruster. 
v:inc_thrusterlevel_singlestep Apply a change to a thruster level for the current frame only. 
Thruster group management 
v:create_thrustergroup Combine thrusters into a logical group. 
v:del_thrustergroup Delete a thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouphandle Returns the handle of a default thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouphandlebyindex Returns the handle of a user-defined (nonstandard) thruster group. 
v:get_groupthrustercount Returns the number of thrusters assigned to a logical thruster group. 
v:get_groupthruster Returns a handle for a thruster that belongs to a thruster group. 
v:get_thrustergrouplevel Returns the mean thrust level for a thruster group. 
v:set_thrustergrouplevel Sets the thrust level for all thrusters in a group. 
v:inc_thrustergrouplevel Increments the thrust level for all thrusters in a group. 
v:inc_thrustergrouplevel_singlestep Increment the thrust level for the group thrusters for the current frame only.

For the vernier engines, you can "enhance" your SC3 config in LUA and try to do them. The only problem I see is that it does not receive keyboard inputs.
But you can change trust direction, sure, or simply add the necessary force vector, change center of gravity, etc. The only problem is getting them to work without keyboard input. Can't understand why all these commands are available if their usefulness is so limited. Perhaps on the next Orbiter version...


Anyway I recommend you try it. Simply start with a simple and familiar SC3 vessels, and load a LUA script on top that adds / changes some parameters.
Of course, you can define the entire vessel in LUA. I haven't tried that yet, but it is more powerful than sc3, and not that hard.

Strange how Martins forgot to consider how inputs could be done :shrug:. I still plan on doing a DLL for now, but I would like to look into LUA eventually, as I would expect it might open up some interesting doors towards configuring add-ons.

So Im starting on the Surveyor right now, If everything goes according to plan, I'll upload the first version here soon.



Edit: Got a good compile now, with a zombified half tutorial/mycodebase source code. No Earth, or rather Moon-shaking issues at this point, just need to get the meshes and configs lined up properly to have the first trial run...

 

[1987VCRProductions]

Strange how Martins forgot to consider how inputs could be done :shrug:. I still plan on doing a DLL for now, but I would like to look into LUA eventually, as I would expect it might open up some interesting doors towards configuring add-ons.

So Im starting on the Surveyor right now, If everything goes according to plan, I'll upload the first version here soon.



Edit: Got a good compile now, with a zombified half tutorial/mycodebase source code. No Earth, or rather Moon-shaking issues at this point, just need to get the meshes and configs lined up properly to have the first trial run...

Remember that the Surveyors bypassed Earth orbit and did a direct ascent to the Moon. I'm not sure how that's going to be pulled off though. The Rangers and Lunar Orbiters all did Earth parking orbits before performing a TLI burn.

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

Ah, wait a minute, wait a minute! Not all of the Surveyors did a direct ascent! Surveyors 1, 2, and 4 did a direct ascent while 3, 5, 6, and 7 went into Earth parking orbit.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Remember that the Surveyors bypassed Earth orbit and did a direct ascent to the Moon. I'm not sure how that's going to be pulled off though. The Rangers and Lunar Orbiters all did Earth parking orbits before performing a TLI burn.

---------- Post added at 02:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:01 PM ----------

Ah, wait a minute, wait a minute! Not all of the Surveyors did a direct ascent! Surveyors 1, 2, and 4 did a direct ascent while 3, 5, 6, and 7 went into Earth parking orbit.

Okey doke, Ill get to that, but for now the addon is just the spacecraft only.

It appears to run fine, but I had some issues with the loadstates placing me on the sun



Looks like Ill need a can of Raid for the little buggies. Off to work I go...



Edit: Yep, the issue is somewhere in the load/save state code. Im going to tear it apart and rebuild it just to double check.

 

[BruceJohnJennerLawso]

Okay, bug is solved, turns out that status is a bad variable name to use in an Orbiter vessel. The vessel now behaves pretty much like it should in real life, but I have a fair bit more work to do on the visual stuff

Here is Surveyor 2.0

View attachment Surveyor 2.0.zip


(please note, most of the source code is Kwan3217s, and the meshes are from Jim Williams Surveyor 1-1 add-on on OHM. I simply followed the tutorial to the letter, no intellectual property infringement intended. If someone would be interested in doing a new mesh for surveyor and/or the Rangers, that would be great too.)

-Need to find out what the Retro exhaust really looks like. Being an SRB, I would expect more visual awesomeness than liquid fueled engines, but Ive never seen a SRM exhaust flame in vacuum before

-Also need to research what the vernier engines are like. The current exhaust flames are not suitable at all.

-Does anyone know what the AMR really looks like? Ive done a fair bit of searching, but I cant seem to find any pictures of it, and the NTRS links that Kwan3217 posted with the tutorial are all dead. Suffice to say that I don't think the current mesh is even close to it.

-And once the goodies are done, Ill look into the launch vehicle. I would really like to use velcro, since a custom dll would be tricky, and I despise the blasted no fuel bug in Multistage2. Autopilots will be another story though, we'll just have to see about that.

 

[DaveS]

Need to find out what the Retro exhaust really looks like. Being an SRB, I would expect more visual awesomeness than liquid fueled engines, but Ive never seen a SRM exhaust flame in vacuum before.

This video shows the South Korean KSLV and based on the plume, it's an SRM:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-NdznM4CkM"]Rocket camera: Video of South Korean rocket in space - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Urwumpe]

Here you also see a solid rocket motor firing...sadly I can't yet find the video of the GPS satellite getting inserted into its orbit, as seen from Hawaii