Question Aliens...Do you think they exist?

[RichWall]

Jupiter: Ball of Gas. DEAD; Europa: Possible life-supporter
Saturn: Ball of Gas. DEAD; Titan: Possible life-supporter (It's life Jim, but not as we know it.)
Uranus: Ball of gas. DEAD
Neptune: Ball of gas. DEAD; Triton: Possible life-supporter

 

[Urwumpe]

Currently, our own methods for detecting life would not even work reliable looking at Earth from much shorter distances, so we can't tell much about this at all anyway.

Maybe we can one day use some Earth lagrange points for having radio telescopes simultaneously observing a single special star system for interesting electromagnetic emissions or signs of chemistry that would be related to life.

 

[T.Neo]

Saturn: Ball of Gas. DEAD; Titan: Possible life-supporter (It's life Jim, but not as we know it.)

Perhaps, but unlikely.

But there is still the chance of life-supporting environments on Enceladus, or in the Titanian mantle... it is suggested that liquid water or a liqiuid water-ammonia mixture exists deep below the surface, and is believed to erupt out onto the surface (cryovolcanism).

In that case, life on Titan... could live in 'magma'...

 

[Sky Captain]

Given that bacterial life on Earth appeared relatively quickly after Earth formed I think it is safe to say that at least simple bacterial life might be common in the universe. After all there has to be planets or moons that are relatively earthlike in a way that they have licquid water oceans with all sorts of dissolved chemicals like on early Earth where life is thought to have developed.
Extremophile bacteria on Earth have shown life can live in wide range of conditions that are even more hostile than environments that might exist under the surface of Mars or icy moons.

 

[Jarvitä]

Extremophile bacteria on Earth have shown life can live in wide range of conditions that are even more hostile than environments that might exist under the surface of Mars or icy moons.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your reasoning seems fundamentally broken.

You're saying "The existence of extremophiles implies bacterial-like life is common". However, I don't see how that follows. Extremophile life didn't just come to existence in extreme environments, it evolved through billions of years, adapting to steadily smaller ecological niches. It isn't an evolutionary left-over from when life began, in fact it's the exact opposite. I don't see the correlation between a very specifically adapted organism existing and life arising in the first place.

 

[Urwumpe]

Still, you had only about 300 million years between a molten surface of Earth becoming solid, and the first fossil traces of bacteria on Earth. That is almost no time on geological scales.

 

[T.Neo]

The reason for the importance of extremophiles in astrobiology is different: it demonstrates that life in such environments is technically possible.

 

[Jarvitä]

The reason for the importance of extremophiles in astrobiology is different: it demonstrates that life in such environments is technically possible.

Yes, but given the convoluted evolutionary process that led to extremophiles on Earth, the probability of such life coming into existence on a planet that is an "extreme environment" in its entirety is increased negligibly.

 

[T.Neo]

Yes, but given the convoluted evolutionary process that led to extremophiles on Earth, the probability of such life coming into existence on a planet that is an "extreme environment" in its entirety is increased negligibly.

I never said anything about evolutionarily possible, but biologically possible.

"It might have evolved this way on Earth, therefore it has to evolve this way everywhere else" is a very annoying argument. It's kind those that some people use to justify their ideas of giraffes and humans and eagles existing on other planets.

And the Earth itself when life first formed was a pretty extreme environment, too. At least not a place where one would like to stand around in the open air...

 

[orb]

Saturn: Ball of Gas. DEAD; Titan: Possible life-supporter (It's life Jim, but not as we know it.)

SPACE.com: Could Alien Life Exist in the Methane Habitable Zone?

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

You might be interested in a blog post I wrote about this ...

[...] We are still in a Copernican revolution that is creating blockade runners sneaking through the imaginary barrier that separates “us” and the Earth from the rest of the Universe. The implications are way beyond what many were once willing to consider. If this state of affairs has existed throughout history – I would say it has – then we have to radically change the way we contextualise our view of Earth. The Physics from the bottom up shows an alive and conscious Universe of which Earth has always been a part. Ancient Civilisations have always been aware of this. It’s not so much “who is out here?” but a case of our vision having been precluded away from the possibilities. All the themes of Science Fiction become possible. Could there be other human outposts out there ? In the Solar System ? In the Galaxy ? Believing ourselves to be isolated on Earth is just silly in the face of the evidence [...]

 

[T.Neo]

Where is the evidence of human settlements out there in space? :facepalm:

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

"could there be?" I said. No, there is no evidence that I know of. But remember Earth has been around for a long time and we aren't the first civilisation to have a good understanding of the Universe.

 

[T.Neo]

But remember Earth has been around for a long time and we aren't the first civilisation to have a good understanding of the Universe.

Which would those civilisations be? The ones who thought the Earth was flat, or the ones who thought the Earth was the center of the universe? :idk:

And if they became so advanced as to create interstellar settlements (something we still haven't nearly the ability to do), where is the evidence of it? Where are the ancient cities, the ancient garbage dumps, the ancient shipyards, aerospace factories, launch pads?

 

[Yoda]

You might be interested in a blog post I wrote about this ...

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

Pretty ironic reply from Yoda there :lol:.

Swami Sri Yukteswar 1855 - 1936 came out of a tradition of ancient Hindu Physics and Cosmology. This planet is also littered with astronomical ancient sites. The Ancients had a deep understanding of the heavens. The Maya track astronomical time over millions of years. Get the idea out of your mind that other cultures are "primitives". They weren't and still aren't. Look at the history of the Dogon for example. Although still controversial in anthropological circles, the Dogon explained complex knowledge gained from far away star systems such as the Dog star. Viewing at a distance and psychic phenomena have been thrown into the loony bin by reductionist mainstream Science. That does not mean however that it is not real (See the Conscious Universe by Radin). SETI does a good job with it's radio scanning. In fact I run it myself. But there is good evidence out there for Ancient as well as modern contact through consciousness with extraterrestrial beings. For example the researcher Susan Rennison documents the way people's consciousness has been altered by contact with "UFO's" that appear to be conscious electromagnetic plasma phenomena. The same phenomena that is regularly recorded in Hassdalen Norway for example.

the sun, with its planets and their moons, takes some star for its dual and revolves around it in about 24,000 years of our earth-a celestial phenomenon which causes the backward movement of the equinoctial points around the zodiac. The sun also has another motion by which it revolves round a grand center called Vishnunabhi which is the seat of the creative power Brahma, the universal magnetism. Brahma regulates Dharma the mental virtues of the internal world." Swami Sri Yukteswar

 

[T.Neo]

Tracking stuff in the sky does not make you an expert on what that stuff actually is.

The ancient Greeks, for example, could have built the Antikythera mechanism, but that does not mean they knew anything about what the planets actually were.

And a pile of rocks that lines up with the Sun does not a launch facility make.

Although still controversial in anthropological circles, the Dogon explained complex knowledge gained from far away star systems such as the Dog star.

It is possible that their myths relating to Sirius could correlate with the nature of the system.

Another possibility is that they learnt of things through outside contact. Not with extraterrestrials, but Earthbound foreigners.

But there is good evidence out there for Ancient as well as modern contact through consciousness with extraterrestrial beings.

Er, sorry to say this, but most people would say this is a "load of psychic nonsense."

I would generally be inclined to say the same thing.

If you are suggesting that the Maya or the Egyptians traveled to the stars via psychic... thingies, and that it is such an obvious phenomenon, the obvious question is: why are we so seemingly oblivious to it?

 

[Michael Z Freeman]

Tracking stuff in the sky does not make you an expert on what that stuff actually is.

The ancient Greeks, for example, could have built the Antikythera mechanism, but that does not mean they knew anything about what the planets actually were.

True. Glad you've heard of the the Antikythera mechanism :hello:.

And a pile of rocks that lines up with the Sun does not a launch facility make.

True. But I was not referring to the possibility of anything like our current nuts and bolts space endeavors. As I discuss on my blog, the thinking here has often become very staid. Why do SETI ignore the discoveries of para-psychology ? The qualified scientific researcher Dean Radin makes a very good case indeed for para-psychology being real with a meta study he did of the last 100 years of para-psychology research. The odds are in the millions to one that those studies positive results were produced by chance. He lays all this out in his book The Conscious Universe using tried and tested statistical methods.

It is possible that their myths relating to Sirius could correlate with the nature of the system.

Another possibility is that they learnt of things through outside contact. Not with extraterrestrials, but Earthbound foreigners.

Yes, that's right.

Er, sorry to say this, but most people would say this is a "load of psychic nonsense."

I would generally be inclined to say the same thing.

No apology necessary. If you think it's nonsense then that's fine. But see my answer above (Radin) if you're still curious.

If you are suggesting that the Maya or the Egyptians traveled to the stars via psychic... thingies, and that it is such an obvious phenomenon, the obvious question is: why are we so seemingly oblivious to it?

Thingies ? :tiphat: There are very good reasons for the obliviousness. We have just had around 500 years of reductionist, materialistic Science that denies the nature of consciousness. Ask a mainstream Scientist and they will say that they are "still trying to solve the problem of consciousness". They will deny that the Quantum Physics slit experiment reveals anything about how consciousness is intimately tied up with everything ... matter, you me, everything. Look at the UFO phenomenon that defies definition in reductionist Cartesian approaches. Consciousness is consistently dismissed as "something that goes on in my head". I have seen incontrovertible personal evidence that there are psychic phenomena. I think we will make much more progress with SETI once our consciousness comes out of this Cold War that it seems to be stuck in.

 

[RisingFury]

The Maya track astronomical time over millions of years.

This statement is so full of FAIL. But that's ok. The Maya said Earth is going to end next year, so what the hell, right?

 

[Urwumpe]

This statement is so full of FAIL. But that's ok. The Maya said Earth is going to end next year, so what the hell, right?

Yours as well. Astrological records by the Maya are at least 4000 years old. And they did not predict the world to end. Their legends say that this world will not end at all (Contrary to the others, which had been destroyed by the creator god because he used the wrong material to create humans).

*Important to note: The Babylonians also started astrology that era. Same for all cultures actually, only very few did not start at that time, the beginning of astrology/astronomy was also closely related to the beginning of fixed settlements and farming.