Updates Ares Updates and Discussion

[Moonwalker]

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/dome_weld.html

Ares I-X Hardware Stacking

June 18, 2009 -- Hardware for the Ares I-X flight test rocket is prepared for stacking in NASA's Vehicle Assembly Building at Kennedy Space Center in Florida. Rocket pieces that were once at various manufacturing sites spread across the country in a 2,000 mile circle are now within a quarter mile of the NASA processing facilities. Next month, the pieces will be moved within an 18 foot circle as the Ares I-X team prepares to stack the vehicle.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/ares/flighttests/aresIx/aresIX_stack_june09.html

 

[movieman]

It assumes that the SRB fails without warning and that the LES is not fired before the booster explodes.

What warning measures does Ares have to detect a failing SRB in the few seconds that might be available? No-one noticed that the Challenger SRB was failing until the whole thing broke up.

I doubt many things other than an SRB failure would cause an abort at that point in the launch, though obviously there are SRB failures which could cause it other than an explosion (e.g. loss of control).

no Shuttle booster has ever exploded in over 100 flights

And this isn't a shuttle booster. The original design may have intended to use a shuttle booster, but now we have five segments, different grain, etc, etc, until about the only similarity is the metal cylinders on the outside; worse than that, the shuttle ET provides extra structural support and vibration damping for the SRB which is missing in this design. So any reliability figures for previous launches are pretty much useless.

It's also worth noting that a Challenger-style SRB leak would almost certainly overload the control systems on an Ares single SRB and cause a safe abort if you were lucky or cartwheel if you weren't.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Ares I-X launch date now set back until 17 October!

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=31800


Interestingly, the Augustine Commission's report will have been published by then.
Now I'm just speculating here, but what if NASA are trying to find a way out of Ares, by pushing the date back far enough so that they will not have to launch anything before the report is published (which if they did, would obviously impact the Commission's decision)???

 

[Star Voyager]

%$&%#&$%#&#!!!!!

 

[Moonwalker]

By the way, the Space Shuttle has proved that SRB's are absolutely reliable for manned launch vehicles, if handled properly.

Ares is something new, and new technologies don't come without challenges and without complications. The Shuttle development did not look less "dramatic" than the Ares development at all. At the end Ares will lift off anyway, disregarding all the negative opinions in forums and blogs, and that more safely than the Shuttle already because of the missing ET foam loss and the susceptible thermal protection system. The SSME's, the ET and the unprotected thermal protection system is the most annoying and time consuming systems NASA has ever operated. I will greatly celebrate the final Shuttle landing. It will be a big day for NASA. I'm waiting for it since the mid 90's already. 2010 is going to be the year of all the years since I'm interested in manned space flight...

 

[Andy44]

Actually, the SSMEs aren't much of a problem at all. They are relatively quick to swap out, and with a rotating supply pool you can refurbish landed engines in due time while pulling a fresh one off the shelf for the next mission.

The ET foam and TPS tiles are a pain in the neck, I agree.

 

[Moonwalker]

Actually, the SSMEs aren't much of a problem at all.

They have caused some delays and that's why I call it annoying technology. They are the major risk factor beside the unprotected TPS.

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Ares I First Stage Motor Unveiled:

www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/constellation/multimedia/ares/dm1_unveiling.html

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To any mods: Would it be possible to make this thread sticky? Thanks!

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Due to the new launch date of 31st October (Halloween), Ares I-X has adopted a "Thriller" theme for it's latest launch poster:

www.nasawatch.com/archives/2009/07/ares_adopts_thr.html

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scAres I-X :rofl:

 

[dougkeenan]

That's so ironic it hurts. Oh the pain, the pain ...

 

[cinder1992]

I CANNOT SEE! I AM BLIIIND!

 

[Moonwalker]

Ares I-X stacking media gallery:

http://mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov/search.cfm?cat=166

 

[Orbinaut Pete]

Well, the Augustine Commission's report will be released at the end of this month (August), and so I hope Ares will be cancelled before this test flight is flown.

In my opinion, it is a waste of money. The so called "test flight" is not actually testing anything, as far as I can tell.

 

[Ark]

I wouldn't mind seeing the one test rocket fly, just to see what it would have looked like before they cancel it.

Of course, if they cancel it, there's no guarantee they'll shift to the Deltas, they may just take it as an excuse to can Constellation. It seems like it would be very easy to say "Well, money is tight and Constellation has wasted all this money, so canceled."

 

[Moonwalker]

The first Space Shuttle test flight was delayed by years, hugely caused by technical problems during development.

The Augustine Commission, who also consists of Ares supporters, does not intend to basically change the way NASA is doing. It rather intends to optimize the progress. It is unlikely that significant apsects of Constallation/Ares become "just" abandoned, since it is already an inherent part of future manned US missions to the ISS, returning to the Moon and fly to Mars later on. Especially Orion and Ares1, which is not something just on paper anymore. For now, the Augustine Commission even did some nice advertisement for Constellation and Ares.

 

[Ark]

The first Space Shuttle test flight was delayed by years, hugely caused by technical problems during development.

The Augustine Commission, who also consists of Ares supporters, does not intend to basically change the way NASA is doing. It rather intends to optimize the progress. It is unlikely that significant apsects of Constallation/Ares become "just" abandoned, since it is already an inherent part of future manned US missions to the ISS, returning to the Moon and fly to Mars later on. Especially Orion and Ares1, which is not something just on paper anymore. For now, the Augustine Commission even did some nice advertisement for Constellation and Ares.

The administration has final word on everything NASA does, and if their commission says "It's a waste of money", they won't hesitate to axe it. The administration doesn't really give a crap about the future of space exploration, just whether they get to stay in power another 4 years.

 

[Moonwalker]

The administration has final word on everything NASA does, and if their commission says "It's a waste of money", they won't hesitate to axe it.

It think it's unlikely that the commission simply concludes "it's a waste of money".

 

[Ark]

It think it's unlikely that the commission simply concludes "it's a waste of money".

They don't have to conclude that, just have an article full of "this existing booster can do it" and "cost overruns" and "safety issues", and the administration will make their own conclusion.

 

[Insane]

Ares I-X really has little to do with what's supposed to become Ares I proper, doesn't it? Different SRB, dummy upperstage. There is no logic in maintaining with Ares I after this test flight, purely because "one has already been flown". It hasn't. A whole new SRB is having to be developed, and a whole new upperstage engine. When NASA is short enough of cash as it is, it seems quite foolish to be doing that.

The commission isn't just there to say if Ares is good or bad, and if the latter, stop US manned spaceflight altogether. It's there to look at alternatives if that is the case, and present them to Obama, with their details. If there is an option presented to him that costs less than Ares, takes a shorter time to implement than Ares, maintains shuttle jobs and infrastructure, and, to add to it all, performs better than Ares, then I am fairly sure he'd tell them to get on with it.

I think about $3bn has been spent so far on Constellation. Not all of that on Ares either, and Orion won't be going anywhere. Not even close to the point yet where it's too late to turn back. The goal of the Moon and Mars can still be changed, and I'm beginning to think that's likely. Near certain that Ares is for the chop as well.

 

[Moonwalker]

They don't have to conclude that, just have an article full of "this existing booster can do it" and "cost overruns" and "safety issues", and the administration will make their own conclusion.

Yes. But it is highly likely that the review is going to conclude and imply to stay the course, merely with a few optimizations here and there. It would be a risky decision to cancel the complete Ares concepts and start roughly at zero. The Augustine Commission by far is not what some Ares opponents seem to think. Look at the members...