Science Ask your local Med

Urwumpe

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Well, quite obviously, I haven't, but then again, I was asking about the long term medical facility available to them, for example, how do we do a blood work, a Lumbar Puncture, etc. when they need to be done? You see the most a person has been on space was just a little bit over a year, not nearly long enough for a serious disease to develop.

You can have a serious disease anytime, the checklist might be interesting since it provides first aid for the serious incidents and treatment for everything that might not harm a mission.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/163533main_ISS_Med_CL.pdf

This isn't the shorter Space Shuttle Medical Checklist, but already pretty comprehensive. I recommend printing one of this and storing it at work. :thumbup:

Of course, you would need much more treatment options if you can't return in between 2 hours and one day. But not everything you mention there is really necessary. For example, if costs doesn't matter that much, you can use integrated chemical sensors for analyzing blood samples in an integrated system. Of course, there is also the X-Prize for building a pocket-sized multipurpose medical scanner like the Star Trek Tricorder, which might also bring some innovation.
 

mojoey

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If one were to develop cancer from radiation, like that from a nuclear reactor, and the cancer propogated on the lungs, would an x-ray scan pick that up?
 

PeterRoss

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OK, microgravity is fun, but there's even less known about body functioning in a low gravity. How will, let's say, martian environment affect the development of a human body starting from the moment of fetation? It may be not only low gravity, but also all kinds of solar radiation since Mars has no magnetic field. (Let's put aside the breathing problem because of obvious reasons).
 

Urwumpe

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If one were to develop cancer from radiation, like that from a nuclear reactor, and the cancer propogated on the lungs, would an x-ray scan pick that up?

Depends on the cancer - some tumors are visible by X-Ray, others only by ultrasonic.
 

Loru

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If one were to develop cancer from radiation, like that from a nuclear reactor, and the cancer propogated on the lungs, would an x-ray scan pick that up?

As stated in chatbox yesterday:

That depends on type of cancer and it's advancement level. Radiation induced cancers may vary greatly in type or location.

Modern X-Ray are more detailed than the old ones but still they show "most hard" type of tissue. Lung cancer for example is much denser and harder than surrounding lung tissue so X-Ray is likelly to pick up tumors.

Better result you have with X-Ray 3-axis tomograph and best with PET scan and nMRI.

Example of typical X-Ray (My heel bone 6 weeks after reconstruction - you still can see 5 bolts removed 2 months later):
leg02.jpg
 

Eccentrus

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If one were to develop cancer from radiation, like that from a nuclear reactor, and the cancer propogated on the lungs, would an x-ray scan pick that up?

Well just as Loru has stated, X-Ray (and CT scans) can only distinguish tissues based on the underlying molecular density. Watery tissues will be shown as darker patches, a hematome (blood leaking into a space) will be shown as very dark, while bones will have a very light presentation. Cancers, especially those of advanced grades, would have created so much damage to the surrounding tissues that they undergo a process called calcification. A denser area in an organ that is supposed to be watery, for example, will be a very strong indication for cancer, even though some kind of chronic infection is also likely.

PET scan and fMRI would be much more definitive in early-stage neoplasm, they can detect the rate of metabolism in an area, which is pretty much the tell-tale sign of cancer because it uses so much energy in multiplying. The usual case scenario is when people feels that they are having a lump in certain area, or complaining of significant weight-loss and paleness, and this can be used to consult the patients to go to a hospital if they live in a remote area.

For the lungs part, it pretty much shows up darkish in the X-Ray and CT, as well as in MRI (since it is mostly air). If there is a neoplasm metastases there it can be shown as lighter patches among the darker area. Darker than usual will be noticed as fluid as is in the case of Pleural Effusion or Pneumonia.

OK, microgravity is fun, but there's even less known about body functioning in a low gravity. How will, let's say, martian environment affect the development of a human body starting from the moment of fetation? It may be not only low gravity, but also all kinds of solar radiation since Mars has no magnetic field. (Let's put aside the breathing problem because of obvious reasons).

well low gravity should have less problems than no gravity at all. Although a child grown in Mars would have trouble visiting Earth as an adult, he will have lesser bone density, and perhaps significantly taller if having similar nutritional regiment to his counterparts on Earth. The lack of Magnetic Field will create many problems since we evolved in a low-radiation environment. But then again, in all probability, when people started to breed on Mars it would have been terraformed and an artificial magnetic shield perhaps has been in function.

This can create an interesting scenario in the interplanetary humanity. Perhaps businessmen from Earth and Mars would have conference only either on Mars or in LEO, but then again, the advancements in Life Support technology and exoskeleton might eliminate this problems for the hypothetical Martians, since even the Terra-Forming part is still technologically centuries away.
 

PeterRoss

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Artifical magnetic field is a very far-away technology as far as terraforming in the whole. What about the nearest century? I guess martian colonists will have to live in shielded habitats, maybe even underground, but will it be possible for them to perform any kinds of surface activity in a long periods of time without having health consequences? Wiki says about radiation level on martian orbit a few times bigger than that in ISS and I don't see why it should be any lower on martian surface.

Exoskeletons is a good idea, by the way, I like it:)
 

kerlix

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Don't get me wrong, this is really interesting stuff and I'm enjoying it. But I think this:

Humans are, in my experience, extremely hard to kill.

Is possibly my favorite thing that has been said haha.
 

T.Neo

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I was born on Earth, and some days I feel like I need to wear an exoskeleton. :facepalm:
 

FADEC

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humans at 60, in my experience are very fragile

Humans can be fragile at 60, but they don't necessarily have to be. A human body already can be fragile at 40, or athletic beyond 80. It depends on ones lifestyle/attitude to life and the genetic precondition. At an age of 60 more and more people are relatively far away from fragile today. While 60 was not even the life expectation for German men in the 1930s, today the life expectation is 77 for men and even above 80 for women in Germany. And I guess it's not much different to most developed countries.

My stepfather is 75 years old now and he walks faster with the dogs than I prefer to do (especially if it begins to rain). He did go jogging a lot in his life though. He moved last year since he bought a new house. No removalists involved. He did it with my brother and me. He even installed the new kitchen almost alone.

My grandpa did drive a BMW motorbike (something like that: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/de/7/7f/BMW_Motorrad_alt.JPG) until he became 80 years old (he was a dispatch rider during WWII). And he worked as a groundskeeper, part-time, until he was 84. He died of gastric cancer, not because of aging at all (and I think it was due to smoking a lot for more than five decades). He could have reached the 100 for sure. My grandma is 85 now, and she did not change a lot since she was 60. My other grandma also is in her mid 80s and still drives an old Porsche :lol:

German gymnast Johanna Quaas at 86:


She could easily have a trip to space and visit the ISS. And there we are: John Glenn at 77 aboard the Space Shuttle...

s95e5190.jpg


Sylvester Stallone at 63:


If you love your life and love to do something then 60 still is young. But if you don't use it, you lose it ;)
 

palebluevoice

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While browsing youtube, I saw a disturbing video entitled "hernia". I would post it but I'm not sure it's within the guidelines. The man in the video was naked and had obscenely large testicles(like a pomegranate). The doctor in the video was pushing the mans testicles into his body, towards his pelvis. He said that the man didn't had insurance, but because he was a no-insurance doctor, that the man was able to receive treatment. I always thought it was "ahernia" and had to do with your back; when lifting an excessive amount of stuff, older people will warn me that I would get ahernia...I would normally research such things on wikipedia, but I figure you're answer will be more informative. Thank you much.
 

Eccentrus

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While browsing youtube, I saw a disturbing video entitled "hernia". I would post it but I'm not sure it's within the guidelines. The man in the video was naked and had obscenely large testicles(like a pomegranate). The doctor in the video was pushing the mans testicles into his body, towards his pelvis. He said that the man didn't had insurance, but because he was a no-insurance doctor, that the man was able to receive treatment. I always thought it was "ahernia" and had to do with your back; when lifting an excessive amount of stuff, older people will warn me that I would get ahernia...I would normally research such things on wikipedia, but I figure you're answer will be more informative. Thank you much.

It is called Herniation not ahernia, herniation is defined (shortly) as the spilling of organs/tissues from a space where it belongs into another space. Herniation can occur anywhere, the brain being pushed into the foramen magnum by a hematome is also called as a herniation. The displacement can occur when there is significant force against the tissue/organ involved, and the weakness of the barrier it laid against. In your video description case, it was the case of the intestines penetrating into the scrotum. This can happen because the barrier between the abdominal space (peritoneum) and the scrotum is especially weak. With all that said though, the herniation can also happen between the peritoneum and the anterior space of the thigh. So there, what is being pushed is not actually the testicles of the poor man, but actually his intestines, just search "herniation" in wikipedia, it should give you a more detailed explanation than mine.
 

jimblah

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Herniation makes me queasy...

Are you aware of any medications that are metabolized differently in microgravity? I'm particularly curious about medications that must cross the blood/brain barrier.
 

FADEC

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And I believe that Herniation is a common thing for testicles like palebluevoice has seen in a youtube video. Not that I want to make a joke of it, but I noticed it while having sex at a cold place, when the scrotum becomes more firm due to the cold. It might happen that one testicle seems to have disappeared. Scary but funny also. One has to push it back down from the pelvis. I talked about it with friends. They reported the same so I guess it's not uncommon.
 

Eccentrus

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And I believe that Herniation is a common thing for testicles like palebluevoice has seen in a youtube video. Not that I want to make a joke of it, but I noticed it while having sex at a cold place, when the scrotum becomes more firm due to the cold. It might happen that one testicle seems to have disappeared. Scary but funny also. One has to push it back down from the pelvis. I talked about it with friends. They reported the same so I guess it's not uncommon.

It is caused by the contraction of the cremaster muscle. It functions to keep the temperature of the testicles as optimal, and no it is not herniation at all.
 

Eccentrus

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Are you aware of any medications that are metabolized differently in microgravity? I'm particularly curious about medications that must cross the blood/brain barrier.

Oh, I missed this one question.

All of our metabolism is just a gigantic biological chemical factory. And knowing that chemical reactions are all governed by the Electro-Magnetic Force doesn't even give gravity a small window to participate. The only thing that can become a problem, as stated quite some posts back, is only on the very organ that functions to detect the general direction of gravity, i.e. the semi-circular canals of your inner ear, which defects on a foetus grown in weightlessness.

The blood-brain barrier itself is maintained by tight physical connections between the cells. All nutrients (including drugs) that goes through it are filtered by cells (the astrocytes and the choroid plexus) with active transport, so no, this would not be a problem at all, since gravity don't take any meaningful effect in the action of active transport inside a cell.
 

Urwumpe

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It is caused by the contraction of the cremaster muscle. It functions to keep the temperature of the testicles as optimal, and no it is not herniation at all.

How was the joke about the black man and the white man sitting at the edge of the nude pool:

White: "This water is 22°C warm"
Black: "And 2.0 meters deep."

(Yeah, I know, it is racist... but at least in a mild form and is pretty democratic in who gets the beating)
 
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