News Contact lost with 777-200ER of Malaysia Airlines

[kerlix]

how the search teams looked in the wrong direction due to misinterpretation of directions from the pilots. Provided, though, it only took 12 hours to find signs of the crash, where right now we have nothing.

Hope this helps.

The interesting part of this flight is definitely that the news (in the US, which can be highly inaccurate/bipolar) is indicating the search area basically in the opposite direction of intended flight path. If this happened at cruise alt., the AP would almost certainly (especially on a T7) be engaged and just keep the plane flying along the intended path.

It is incredibly odd to me that the plane somehow turned nearly 180*, made no mention of distress what-so-ever, and continued to fly for hours. I can't really fathom how that could happen, unless it was intentional, or a disabled and nearly unconscious pilot tried to turn the plane around to the origin before losing consciousness in a remarkably short amount of time.

As I typed that last sentence, I realized "Holy ****, that is a possibility....." .

 

[Hielor]

The interesting part of this flight is definitely that the news (in the US, which can be highly inaccurate/bipolar) is indicating the search area basically in the opposite direction of intended flight path. If this happened at cruise alt., the AP would almost certainly (especially on a T7) be engaged and just keep the plane flying along the intended path.

It is incredibly odd to me that the plane somehow turned nearly 180*, made no mention of distress what-so-ever, and continued to fly for hours. I can't really fathom how that could happen, unless it was intentional, or a disabled and nearly unconscious pilot tried to turn the plane around to the origin before losing consciousness in a remarkably short amount of time.

Welcome to last week?

But seriously--you haven't been following along with this saga, have you?

 

[kerlix]

Welcome to last week?

But seriously--you haven't been following along with this saga, have you?

Honestly. no.
But thanks for bringing me down a notch. I appreciate it. You helped.

 

[Hielor]

Honestly. no.
But thanks for bringing me down a notch. I appreciate it. You helped.

Always happy to help.

If you're interested in knowing more about what's been going on (or at least, what's being announced), I'd recommend swimming through this thread from the start.

Unfortunately, the only people who actually know what happened at this point are very likely dead, but all kinds of theories have been discussed in the last couple weeks--including everything you've mentioned.

 

[Artlav]

Here is all up-to-date info, if you can stand a wall of text: http://avherald.com/h?article=4710c69b&opt=0

 

[garyw]

And an up to date map.

 

[Urwumpe]

French satellite images confirm the Chinese images, looks like there is really promising debris in the region.

 

[N_Molson]

Also, with regards to those lithium batteries and possible fire, they could've just opened the doors, right?

No. You can't open the doors unless the plane is nearly at sea level. Else the difference of pressure between the inside and the outside would require an impossible strength. Not to mention that the person opening the door would be "aaaAAAAHHHhhhh...h..." sucked out.

 

[garyw]

No. You can't open the doors unless the plane is nearly at sea level. Else the difference of pressure between the inside and the outside would require an impossible strength. Not to mention that the person opening the door would be "aaaAAAAHHHhhhh...h..." sucked out.

You can't even open the doors. They are plug type doors. The pressure inside is thousands of times greater than that outside. They are impossible to open at altitude

However, it is possible to depressuirse the plane from the flight deck and it is a technique that can be used to put out a fire. Problem here is that the cargo area of a 777 is generally kept at a much lower pressure to prevent fire plus there are sensors and nitrogen inerting systems. The only time the cargo area is at cabin pressure and heated is when the cargo is live.

 

[Urwumpe]

However, it is possible to depressuirse the plane from the flight deck and it is a technique that can be used to put out a fire. Problem here is that the cargo area of a 777 is generally kept at a much lower pressure to prevent fire plus there are sensors and nitrogen inerting systems. The only time the cargo area is at cabin pressure and heated is when the cargo is live.

You can't depressurize the cabin fast enough (without destroying the plane) to fight fires that way. Until you have reduced the oxygen content far enough for the fire to go out, you have already structural damage. The overflow and relief dump valves have a very small crosssection.

And when a lithium battery burns, it is much harder to stop it.

Also, the passenger cabin and the cargo area are part of the same pressure hull, you can't reduce the pressure for them separately (the only thing that you can control and monitor separately for different places within the cabin is temperature).

 

[garyw]

Yup Urwumpe, you're quite right. For some reason I thought that they had separated them but I'm wrong.

 

[Urwumpe]

Yup Urwumpe, you're quite right. For some reason I thought that they had separated them but I'm wrong.

For some planes, you can really have separate pressure, the large bulk cargo aircraft for example. But thats rather the exception.

 

[Urwumpe]

An australian plane has found debris close to the place where a chinese aircraft has found possible aircraft wreckage, in a few hours, a chinese ship will be there to recover the found debris.

 

[garyw]

An australian plane has found debris close to the place where a chinese aircraft has found possible aircraft wreckage, in a few hours, a chinese ship will be there to recover the found debris.

Which could be anything although this text went out to the families:

The following SMS message has been sent to relatives: "Malaysia Airlines deeply regrets that we have to assume beyond any reasonable doubt that MH370 has been lost and that none of those on board survived. As you will hear in the next hour from Malaysia's Prime Minister, we must now accept all evidence suggests the plane went down in the Southern Indian Ocean."

I also cant believe this statement from Tony Abbott

"The Australian Maritime Safety Authority has advised that objects have been located by a Royal Australian Air Force P3 Orion. And I can advise the House that HMAS Success is on scene and is attempting to locate and recover these objects," Mr Abbott told the Australian parliament.

The objects were spotted some 2,500km (1,550 miles) south-west of Perth, western Australia, at about 14:45 local time (06:45 GMT).

A US Navy Poseidon plane, a second Royal Australian Air Force Orion and a Japanese Orion were also en route to or were in the search area, he added.

Investigators could be closer to resolving "one of the great mysteries of our time", he said.

Hardly. We need to know why it crashed, why it was so far off course and what really happened on board. Once the wreckage is retrieve the investigation is only just starting.

 

[n122vu]

News conference in the next few minutes (10AM US EDT).
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10718181/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-live.html

---------- Post added at 10:01 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:57 AM ----------

Based on new analysis of the satellite data, it has been concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor, and its last position was in a remote position over the southern Indian Ocean, west of Perth. They appear to be officially announcing that MH370 has been lost at sea.

 

[Urwumpe]

Hardly. We need to know why it crashed, why it was so far off course and what really happened on board. Once the wreckage is retrieve the investigation is only just starting.

Old rule of criminalistics, that also applies to plane crashes: Without the corpse, you have no murder or manslaughter.

Without the wreckage, you have no crash - you know something went badly wrong, but what really happened can only be told with the wreck. So, if they have found debris, they have come really a huge distance closer to finding the wreck. Have they found the wreck, they can find the recorders, etc.

But still, under the current circumstances and the strong currents and winds in that area, it is really doubtful, that the wreck will be found in this year. In case of AF447, the location where it crashed was already known with some accuracy and it still took years to find it. It could now take decades to find the bulk of the debris (most will likely be torn into pieces).


If at all.

So, knowing that it really crashed without survivors is a confirmation that was really needed. But the work isn't over yet.

 

[n122vu]

Indeed. They have yet to confirm the two new objects spotted are in any way connected to MH370. Even if they are, given the amount of time they have been drifting on the sea, it may be quite some time before the actual crash location is discovered.

Malaysian airliner's last position over Indian Ocean, PM says

 

[N_Molson]

Najib Razak, first minister of Indonesia, officially announced that flight MH370 was lost at sea.

"This evening I was briefed by representatives from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB). They informed me that Inmarsat, the UK company that provided the satellite data which indicated the northern and southern corridors, has been performing further calculations on the data. Using a type of analysis never before used in an investigation of this sort, they have been able to shed more light on MH370′s flight path.

Based on their new analysis, Inmarsat and the AAIB have concluded that MH370 flew along the southern corridor, and that its last position was in the middle of the Indian Ocean, west of Perth.

This is a remote location, far from any possible landing sites. It is therefore with deep sadness and regret that I must inform you that, according to this new data, flight MH370 ended in the southern Indian Ocean.

We will be holding a press conference tomorrow with further details. In the meantime, we wanted to inform you of this new development at the earliest opportunity. We share this information out of a commitment to openness and respect for the families, two principles which have guided this investigation.

Malaysia Airlines have already spoken to the families of the passengers and crew to inform them of this development. For them, the past few weeks have been heartbreaking; I know this news must be harder still. I urge the media to respect their privacy, and to allow them the space they need at this difficult time." (Via ABC News)

On Monday, Stars and Stripes reported that the U.S. Navy had sent a "Towed Pinger Locator 25," a black box locator system that is a "super sensitive hydrophone" able to hear signals to a depth of 20,000 feet, according to Cmdr. Chris Budde, the U.S. 7th Fleet Operations Officer.

 

[kamaz]

I am mildly impressed that Inmarsat had data which allowed them to calculate Doppler shift of the aircraft signals.

Also, observe that the debris location is directly south of where the aircraft was allegedly last seen. This would support the theory that the pilot attempted to commit suicide in a way that ensures that the plane would never be found: escape from Malaysia to the West over the Indian Ocean, then fly due south until the fuel runs out.

Another explanation would be that the plane was hijacked/stolen and was going to Australia in a roundabout way (i.e. first fly to south, then turn to east or south-east), but something happened before the hijackers made the turn towards Australia. But the problem with this theory is that it was reported that the plane was diverted per FMS waypoints, not manually, so the hijackers should have programmed the entire route to Australia. So even if everyone on board was incapacitated for some reason, the plane would have crashed in Australia.

I have a feeling that this crash will be never adequately explained.

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:56 PM ----------

But still, under the current circumstances and the strong currents and winds in that area, it is really doubtful, that the wreck will be found in this year. In case of AF447, the location where it crashed was already known with some accuracy and it still took years to find it. It could now take decades to find the bulk of the debris (most will likely be torn into pieces).

I think in all depends on how the aircraft hit the water. If it was "suicide by autopilot", then it all depends how the 777 autopilot will behave when fuel runs out at cruise altitude... And I think that some investigator is trying that on simulator as we speak.

Also, I have a feeling that after this crash someone will propose that the planes should be made remotely controllable to protect from pilot insanity.

 

[JSwift]

Najib Razak, first minister of Indonesia, officially announced that flight MH370 was lost at sea.

"This evening I was briefed by representatives from the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch (AAIB). They informed me that Inmarsat, the UK company that provided the satellite data which indicated the northern and southern corridors, has been performing further calculations on the data. Using a type of analysis never before used in an investigation of this sort, they have been able to shed more light on MH370′s flight path.

I've been wondering about these ping "arcs". The news broadcasts I've seen have been intently focused on the final arc as pinged by the aircraft and what I've heard about that data point makes sense to me.

I'm assuming that whatever system is in place to ping the satellite will do so at regular intervals but I've missed any specific mention of previous pings or the arcs that would result from them. Surely there were previous pings in the hours before the last one that would be critical in tracking the aircraft direction or at least rule out certain areas? It sounds like the latest information from Inmarsat may be the result of these calculations?

Maybe this has already been covered or it's so obvious that it's a given. Does anyone know more about the system on board the aircraft that sends out these pings and how often they are sent out? (yes, I'm too lazy to google it right now).