Cosmic Penguin
Geek Penguin in GTO
Any interim status reports on the development process? :tiphat:
Project CST-100
- Thread starter ky
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N_Molson
Addon Developer
PhantomCruiser
Wanderer
Ah crap-ola...
I had an updated manual for review and I can't find it. I'll be searching my USB drives for a while...
I do need a few screenshots to flesh out the manual (or at least the WIP so far), so if anyone has any favorites, send them to me.
I had an updated manual for review and I can't find it. I'll be searching my USB drives for a while...
I do need a few screenshots to flesh out the manual (or at least the WIP so far), so if anyone has any favorites, send them to me.
ky
Director of Manned Spaceflight
Been a while, but N_Molson and I have made some progress on the CST. There are a few inconsistencies noted in picture #2 and the adapter design might be changed, so I still have a bit of work to do. But other than that, we seem pretty close to a Beta release.
---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------
Also, just noticed I could see through the window through the wall of the capsule to the VAB.
---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------
Also, just noticed I could see through the window through the wall of the capsule to the VAB.
BruceJohnJennerLawso
Dread Lord of the Idiots
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Been a while, but N_Molson and I have made some progress on the CST. There are a few inconsistencies noted in picture #2 and the adapter design might be changed, so I still have a bit of work to do. But other than that, we seem pretty close to a Beta release.
---------- Post added at 06:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:26 PM ----------
Also, just noticed I could see through the window through the wall of the capsule to the VAB.
Finally! :thumbup:
I thought this project had died a quiet death for sure. Looks like the
brought it back to life though 
N_Molson
Addon Developer
None of the projects I'm in are dead. Some are in very deep sleep, but still there
---------- Post added at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:24 AM ----------
OK, while we fix those meshes problems, I've been trying to simulate the CST-100 LES. First, it's pretty hard to find information on it, so there will be a good part of speculation.
What I know is that it uses 4x RS-88 LOX/Ethanol engines, each providing 220 kN of thrust. My experiments showed that almost 1 ton of LOX/Ethanol is required to send the capsule to a safe altitude of 2.5-3 kilometers from the pad (the Soyuz and Apollo LES had roughly those characteristics). It seems a lot of dead mass to me, what do you think ? I wasn't able to find the RS-88 Isp, but the few LOX/Ethanol engines I've found have a typical 240-250s Isp.
Also, LOX is cryogenic, which means it can't be stored. I don't know how Ethanol works, but given it is highly volatile, I guess it has to be cooled too. So my guess is that those propellant/oxydizer have to be vented once in orbit : it removes a great deal of dead mass, which saves Dv to reach the ISS and deorbit, and it is required to avoid the tanks to explode by heating (from the Sun heat flux and also spacecraft systems). :hmm:
This is however purely speculative, any thoughts on this ?
ky
Director of Manned Spaceflight
I'll email Boeing and see what happens. The last few times, they replied sending me photos I already had, and no info. I think they'll appreciate our effort.
Ethanol is just regular alcohol (98/100%). It's easily storable in room temperature with its boiling temp at 78.37 °C. Also there are no major concerns about tank alloy even regular aluminium will do the trick.
N_Molson
Addon Developer
Here are the pad abort tests pictures :
BTW the direction and position of the (logical) thrusters has still to be adjusted.
Also I get a maximum of 8-9 G, which is a bit ridiculous in comparison of the Soyuz LES 22 G peak. :hmm:
BTW the direction and position of the (logical) thrusters has still to be adjusted.
Also I get a maximum of 8-9 G, which is a bit ridiculous in comparison of the Soyuz LES 22 G peak. :hmm:
ky
Director of Manned Spaceflight
Email sent to Boeing, wish I saw the LES test pics before I sent it
---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------
Huh. For some reason the email failed to be delivered.
---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
"Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
[email protected]
Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain boeing.com by stl-mbsin-02.boeing.com. [130.76.96.48]."
I guess they thought I was the Chinese
---------- Post added at 09:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:39 AM ----------
Huh. For some reason the email failed to be delivered.
---------- Post added at 09:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
"Delivery to the following recipient failed permanently:
[email protected]
Technical details of permanent failure:
Google tried to deliver your message, but it was rejected by the server for the recipient domain boeing.com by stl-mbsin-02.boeing.com. [130.76.96.48]."
I guess they thought I was the Chinese
N_Molson
Addon Developer
Also we don't know the amount of thrust provided by the thrusters located in the lateral pods. It seems there are two sorts of them : 5x "large" and 2x "small". My guess would be that the "small" are used in a "precision mode" (again, I think by analogy to the Soyuz).
Note that there are obvious errors in the above image : the thrusters in the pods are obviously not related to the launch abort system.
Note that there are obvious errors in the above image : the thrusters in the pods are obviously not related to the launch abort system.
ky
Director of Manned Spaceflight
5 on the bottom and 2 on top of the pods? Then how would it roll?
---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------
Nevermind. 5 on the bottoms of each pod, and only 2 pods have the 2 roll thrusters.
---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------
Should I try to email NASA?
---------- Post added at 01:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:12 PM ----------
Nevermind. 5 on the bottoms of each pod, and only 2 pods have the 2 roll thrusters.
---------- Post added at 01:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------
Should I try to email NASA?
N_Molson
Addon Developer
I was talking about the main propulsion.
Still about those pods, there are also as you said 4x "big thrusters" for roll, 4x "precision thrusters" (correction, 8x of each, because it is necessary to make translation possible, and we can see them on the pic I posted below) also for roll, and 8x "precision thrusters" for braking.
On this image we can see that the 8x main retro thrusters ("big ones") are located on the capsule itself (no in fact I see only 6 of them, weird. And BTW it would mean that only 4 (opposite pairs) of them are used (else you get torque). Also, it would mean that the CM and SM are connected by fuel lines, which seems a bit complex to me.).
There are also a set of thrusters located on the capsule itself. I have no idea if they can be used in combination with the SM thrusters. That's not the case on the Soyuz. I don't know much about Apollo, but AFAIK, it was roughly working the same way : SM thrusters for the most of the mission, then CM thrusters (and tanks) for reentry control.
BTW I found a pic that shows a completely different thruster configuration (but that makes more sense to me).
If you write for info, the most important right now would be to ask for :
- the specifications of the propulsion and attitude control thrusters (types, thrust, specific impulse).
- the quantity of LOX/Ethanol carried for the LES, and if it is going to be vented in orbit.
- the quantity of oxydizer/propellant carried in the SM, and in the CM for the reentry control.
- the planned dry mass of the SM and the CM (without crew, supplies, or fuel).
- and a recent CST-100 render wouldn't hurt
I doubt we can get all that detailed information, but it never hurts to try
Still about those pods, there are also as you said 4x "big thrusters" for roll, 4x "precision thrusters" (correction, 8x of each, because it is necessary to make translation possible, and we can see them on the pic I posted below) also for roll, and 8x "precision thrusters" for braking.
On this image we can see that the 8x main retro thrusters ("big ones") are located on the capsule itself (no in fact I see only 6 of them, weird. And BTW it would mean that only 4 (opposite pairs) of them are used (else you get torque). Also, it would mean that the CM and SM are connected by fuel lines, which seems a bit complex to me.).
There are also a set of thrusters located on the capsule itself. I have no idea if they can be used in combination with the SM thrusters. That's not the case on the Soyuz. I don't know much about Apollo, but AFAIK, it was roughly working the same way : SM thrusters for the most of the mission, then CM thrusters (and tanks) for reentry control.
BTW I found a pic that shows a completely different thruster configuration (but that makes more sense to me).
If you write for info, the most important right now would be to ask for :
- the specifications of the propulsion and attitude control thrusters (types, thrust, specific impulse).
- the quantity of LOX/Ethanol carried for the LES, and if it is going to be vented in orbit.
- the quantity of oxydizer/propellant carried in the SM, and in the CM for the reentry control.
- the planned dry mass of the SM and the CM (without crew, supplies, or fuel).
- and a recent CST-100 render wouldn't hurt
I doubt we can get all that detailed information, but it never hurts to try
Last edited:
Kyle
Armchair Astronaut
M_Molson, does your Atlas V Alpha links still work? They're broken for me.
Kyle
Armchair Astronaut
Okay, I was just curious to see how it works with the latest D3D9 revision.
francisdrake
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Hi, this is an interesting thread!
I found this picture on a pdf-publication by Boeing:
Comments:
The capsule needs roll thrusters so it can be steered during re-entry, using lift provided by an offset mass center. If not it would allow only ballistic re-entry with high G-loads. One panel with roll thrusters is shown in the picture.
I guess the forward firing capsule thrusters are used only during reentry. Orbital operations will be performed by the RM thrusters.
If there are no reliable technical data on the CST (wet & dry mass, ISP, dV, etc.) we could try to make an educated guess. Starting with the mass of a crew of 7, provisions for 2 days and an average density of the spacecraft we could determine a dry mass. From the mission description (abort capability, dv req'd for orbit circularization, ISS chasing and docking, deorbit burn, contingencies) we could derive the fuel mass. Let me know if you would like to try this.
I found this picture on a pdf-publication by Boeing:
Comments:
The capsule needs roll thrusters so it can be steered during re-entry, using lift provided by an offset mass center. If not it would allow only ballistic re-entry with high G-loads. One panel with roll thrusters is shown in the picture.
I guess the forward firing capsule thrusters are used only during reentry. Orbital operations will be performed by the RM thrusters.
If there are no reliable technical data on the CST (wet & dry mass, ISP, dV, etc.) we could try to make an educated guess. Starting with the mass of a crew of 7, provisions for 2 days and an average density of the spacecraft we could determine a dry mass. From the mission description (abort capability, dv req'd for orbit circularization, ISS chasing and docking, deorbit burn, contingencies) we could derive the fuel mass. Let me know if you would like to try this.
N_Molson
Addon Developer
Well, typical Dv for LEO spacecraft is around 500 m/s : Space Shuttle, Soyuz, Progress, ATV, Dragon, all those are around that number, enough to reach the ISS and deorbit with a small safety margin.
So I would try to adjust the masses so it fits that number. For the total mass, there are various estimations. I've seen 10 tons, 11 tons, 13 tons... I guess that the right number is what the Atlas V 412 is able to send in orbit with a small margin.
---------- Post added 04-09-13 at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was 04-08-13 at 07:37 PM ----------
Thanks to Jarmonik for that Earthglow
---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
As promised here's a Tuesday release :
Atlas-V EELV / CST-100 alpha v0.43 (Mediafire, 18Mb)
Notice that the "CST-100" is really in an alpha state, there is no main engine. But the abort engines are functional (press "O" when the capsule is selected or triple-tap "D" when the rocket is selected).
As usual, positive feedback is always welcome and helps debugging. :tiphat:
So I would try to adjust the masses so it fits that number. For the total mass, there are various estimations. I've seen 10 tons, 11 tons, 13 tons... I guess that the right number is what the Atlas V 412 is able to send in orbit with a small margin.
---------- Post added 04-09-13 at 12:20 PM ---------- Previous post was 04-08-13 at 07:37 PM ----------
Thanks to Jarmonik for that Earthglow
---------- Post added at 06:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------
As promised here's a Tuesday release :
Atlas-V EELV / CST-100 alpha v0.43 (Mediafire, 18Mb)
Notice that the "CST-100" is really in an alpha state, there is no main engine. But the abort engines are functional (press "O" when the capsule is selected or triple-tap "D" when the rocket is selected).
As usual, positive feedback is always welcome and helps debugging. :tiphat:
Last edited:
